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[Music]

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[Laughter]

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[Music]

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welcome back to liminal frames I'm your

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host Nathan and I'm joined by my friend

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and co-host Darren King also known as

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EXO academian Darren this is I Believe

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episode 31 we are nearing the end of the

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month of May I can't believe how fast

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this year is going by a lot has happened

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thus far and recently I know you were an

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attendee at the conference at Rice

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University The Archives of the

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impossible hosted by Dr Jeff and

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that that was an amazing experience with

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a lot of academic lectures and complex

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and thought-provoking content you got to

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rub elbows with a lot a lot of these

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sort of thought leaders and uh and have

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some solid conversations so I would love

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to hear your take on on the weekend and

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uh what were your takeaways

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yes it was a great experience I think I

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was impressed with the breadth and depth

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of Jeff's vision for it it was quite a

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broad assortment of people talking about

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all sorts of impossible experience I

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love the way that Jeff kicked it off

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with his initial comments where he

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basically said things like levitation is

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absolutely impossible and yet it occurs

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he says with things like this right he

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says certainly these things according to

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our conventional Notions cannot happen

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and yet they do

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and he actually showed an image of a

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book that's going to be coming out an

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academic book I believe that's about

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these nuns in history that supposedly

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flew

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and the the title of the book and he

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showed that front cover is literally

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called they flew

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so he can sort of in your face right you

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can sort of see these like nuns feet

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like hanging in the air while people are

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like reaching up and cheering kind of

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saying

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so

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yeah that was one of the things he

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talked about but there was quite a

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breadth you know there was people

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talking about non-dual experience and

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one person gave an interesting talk

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about how to induce non-dual experience

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without using psychedelics sort of a

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crash course on how you could have kind

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of a Buddhist teaching for a modern

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audience in kind of a 30-day kind of

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treaties kind of thing

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uh we also had people talk about

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out-of-body experiences and near-death

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experiences one woman when she was a

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toddler experienced herself drowning in

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a pool then was hovering above in the

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air watching her panicky mother trying

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to revive her body and at that moment

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she felt like she could either leave or

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come back and because of her love for

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her mother and recognizing how much

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guilt the mother was feeling she came

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back and then later on had this amazing

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experience where

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she was bonding with a man she did not

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know who was in a coma-like state then

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she started feeling this connection with

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this man and just when she thought there

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was no hope because no one expected him

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to revive she was in an out-of-body

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State when she saw three blue aliens

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basically operating on him energetically

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and soon afterwards he started having

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complete lung recovery when no one was

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expecting it and made a full recovery

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and she ended up marrying this man right

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so this is these are the kind of stories

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were talked about the experiences

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we had one person that talked about

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having known a friend who

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basically had a really remarkable

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experience with this conductor who was a

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conductor of an orchestra but he also

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seemed to conduct energy and so one time

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when she went to shake his hand it's

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like lightning went through their hands

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kind of thing and she later experienced

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a different dimensional aspect of him

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through this ball of light that was

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appearing which felt like a a different

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dimensional kind of representation of

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his Spirit while he was also on the

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earth somewhere else and then last but

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not least the Highlight for me was Karen

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Austin my colleague at the John Mack

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Institute just talked about John's life

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and his legacy and talked about the the

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gift of all of the the data from the

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John Mack Institute that's being handed

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over to the archives the impossible for

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Jeff and his crew to to handle uh and

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that's going to lead to a lot of really

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interesting data scraping and AI driven

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kind of analysis of patterns and things

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like that in the future a lot of really

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interesting things happened it was very

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moving talk because for Karen she knew

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John directly and actually was the last

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person to see him alive she took him to

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the airport before he flew to the UK

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where he was killed unfortunately so it

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was a very moving sweeping but really

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energizing talk so it was a wonderful

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time and like you said I got to see all

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sorts of friends that I already knew

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from places like New York last year in

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the conference there that Jay and James

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put on and also met a bunch of people

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that knew me that I didn't know which

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was great as well so yeah it was a great

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time all around

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that sounds fantastic and it's exciting

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to see that it's gaining steam I think

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the the attention the attendance has

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been greater at this conference than the

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year before and that's what I would

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expect to see as we move forward uh we

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we know we've heard that academics are

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gaining more and more interest in this

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topic that it's not the taboo uh sort of

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butt of the joke uh topic that it used

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to be there's a lot of interest and

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we've heard from folks like Gary Nolan

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who have talked about being in private

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circles with academics and they you just

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peppered with questions they they're

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thirsty for this information uh to me

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it's a the frontier really of an

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exciting time of human knowledge and

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discovery that is going to rewrite what

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we know about ourselves and the other

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academic disciplines that that uh in

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many respects have kind of grown stale

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uh and so we're kind of poised for

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Revival of uh Renaissance if you will of

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human knowledge which is to me very very

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exciting and encouraging and uh

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developing those connections and that

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Network there I'm sure was stimulating

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for you as you can see new opportunities

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arising on the horizon from those

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connections

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indeed it was it was wonderful and there

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was quite an assortment of academics

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that reached out to me and said I hear

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you have big plans for the future in

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terms of trying to actually model a

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different way of Being Human and a

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different way of being a civilization so

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I actually had people everything from

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nuclear physicists to archaeologists to

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anthropologists coming up to me giving

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me their business card and saying I'm

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really interested in being involved in

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the future you know please keep in touch

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so absolutely there was quite quite an

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assortment and many many of them were

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academics and I I hear regularly from

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academics that want to

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to study this I'm going to be involved

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with someone who's a PhD in philosophy

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that's going to be writing a book about

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these kind of things and going to

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interview me and some other people so

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yeah it's really really fascinating that

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this is all finally Gathering steam in

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the mainstream and I would suggest based

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on what we're going to talk about

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tonight that that is just getting

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started

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yeah exactly uh we're going to do a deep

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dive this evening into uh what what the

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post-disclosure world may look like what

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exploring some facets of that new

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reality when the

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extraterrestrial or non-human

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intelligent aspects of this phenomenon

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become publicly known and accepted in

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human civilization

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um you know it's a it's even to say that

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out loud Darren to me is is a very

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profound thing to imagine and we talk

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about this all the time but we're

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hearing in social media we're hearing uh

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in the rumor mill that that we're

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seemingly very close to some big

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announcements or Revelations that uh

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that will change the the Paradigm

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further us I've heard people say akin to

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the 2017 New York Times article and then

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that will also just continue to snowball

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with other Revelations that will follow

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you can't help but see that if there

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isn't there there which I know you and I

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both argue there is that the truth

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eventually will find the light of day uh

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and that the snowballing effect here is

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very real the momentum has been building

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and eventually you cannot put that

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backhand put the toothpaste back in the

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tube it is out and I think uh as much as

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you and I talk about it all the time and

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are excited for that we still don't

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really know exactly what that world will

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look like we can speculate and and we

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can offer our kind of best guesses or

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even our aspirations but we don't fully

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know what that new day will be like for

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the individual and for our entire

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civilizations we're going to explore

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some of the Contours of that on the show

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this evening so as we kind of kick that

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off

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I know you wanted to talk a little bit

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about uh you know what you're hearing or

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at least uh you're maybe your assessment

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of what you're seeing take place in uh

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social media as well as amongst other

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ufologists who you you know who you stay

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close to so what what what's your take

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on where we are at the moment

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right well as you and I were talking

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about before we went on the air Gary

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Newland just today

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was making some remarks in a conference

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in New York of course we have people

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like John Ramirez who've been saying

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some pretty bold things about this

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I would just say that what I'm hearing

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in my circles confirms all of that and

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then some so I think

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this is not just a a nice conversation

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to have about a one day kind of thing I

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think we really are on the precipice of

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something significant happening and so

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it seems like a perfect time to have

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this conversation

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so yeah so I would say to people if you

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are worried about believing the hype I

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would say believe the hype this time

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there really is something coming and I

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think it really is going to Mark a new

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day in our civilization

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wow uh well I have in a fasten your seat

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belts uh put your tray tables in there

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up right in the locked positions uh we

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will

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beta breath I'm looking forward to it uh

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I'm also aware that when that time comes

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there will be you can almost pick

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picture the moment right whenever uh the

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audience is hearing something that

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profound you can almost hear the breath

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of every person kind of inhale as

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they're taking in that that new and new

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experience and digesting uh what it

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means for them what it means for them as

277
00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:53,459
an individual what it means for them in

278
00:10:59,269 --> 00:10:56,700
their families and Social Circles Etc uh

279
00:11:01,310 --> 00:10:59,279
I think that's going to be really the

280
00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:01,320
immediate impact right is what's

281
00:11:07,790 --> 00:11:05,040
happening to us when we uh really sit

282
00:11:09,769 --> 00:11:07,800
with this uh even those of us who have

283
00:11:11,569 --> 00:11:09,779
been champions of the topic for so long

284
00:11:13,490 --> 00:11:11,579
I think sitting down with it and

285
00:11:15,889 --> 00:11:13,500
realizing that yes that thing we've

286
00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:15,899
talked about and we've tried to convince

287
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:18,480
others of it's a validity

288
00:11:23,389 --> 00:11:21,120
it's here and and what does that mean

289
00:11:24,889 --> 00:11:23,399
for us how are we we changed in that in

290
00:11:28,670 --> 00:11:24,899
that moment

291
00:11:31,009 --> 00:11:28,680
um how do you see that transpiring uh on

292
00:11:33,829 --> 00:11:31,019
the individual uh experience and and

293
00:11:35,569 --> 00:11:33,839
also within those immediate uh spheres

294
00:11:37,790 --> 00:11:35,579
of influence with your family members

295
00:11:39,530 --> 00:11:37,800
and and your Social Circle and your

296
00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:39,540
social media Circle how do you see that

297
00:11:43,730 --> 00:11:42,420
kind of taking place

298
00:11:45,470 --> 00:11:43,740
yeah I think that's a great place to

299
00:11:46,970 --> 00:11:45,480
begin because we'll we'll get into some

300
00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:46,980
of the different ways this will impact

301
00:11:51,050 --> 00:11:49,260
our civilization in the big picture

302
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:51,060
we'll look at it religiously

303
00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:53,760
scientifically developmentally

304
00:11:57,650 --> 00:11:56,040
but initially I think each of us will

305
00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:57,660
have the experience of our Circles of

306
00:12:02,509 --> 00:11:59,519
influence suddenly being interested in

307
00:12:05,329 --> 00:12:02,519
this topic people who either kind of

308
00:12:07,790 --> 00:12:05,339
scoffed at the notion or just didn't

309
00:12:09,530 --> 00:12:07,800
show that much interest or whatever

310
00:12:10,490 --> 00:12:09,540
hopefully didn't call us crazy but maybe

311
00:12:12,410 --> 00:12:10,500
there's some people like that in

312
00:12:14,210 --> 00:12:12,420
people's lives

313
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:14,220
to suddenly realizing these people will

314
00:12:17,810 --> 00:12:16,320
have no choice but to really face face

315
00:12:19,490 --> 00:12:17,820
this I think there might be some people

316
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,500
that will still somehow want to bury

317
00:12:22,670 --> 00:12:21,600
their heads in the sand but that will be

318
00:12:25,250 --> 00:12:22,680
very clear that that's what they're

319
00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:25,260
doing at that point and willfully so

320
00:12:30,410 --> 00:12:28,260
so yeah I just want to prep this by

321
00:12:32,210 --> 00:12:30,420
saying to everyone just imagine all of

322
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,220
your extended family and your work

323
00:12:36,110 --> 00:12:34,560
colleagues and people that you you know

324
00:12:38,690 --> 00:12:36,120
chat with while you're in the grocery

325
00:12:40,430 --> 00:12:38,700
store line all of those conversations I

326
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:40,440
think are going to begin to move in this

327
00:12:45,829 --> 00:12:42,959
direction because let's just step back

328
00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:45,839
and think about how historic this is we

329
00:12:51,949 --> 00:12:48,360
are the first generation in history

330
00:12:55,069 --> 00:12:51,959
of the human race that will be

331
00:12:57,769 --> 00:12:55,079
alive when this kind of Revelation

332
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:57,779
hits the mainstream it's really

333
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:59,279
remarkable when you think about it I

334
00:13:02,329 --> 00:13:00,720
think those of us really intimately

335
00:13:04,490 --> 00:13:02,339
familiar with this topic and passionate

336
00:13:06,889 --> 00:13:04,500
about it have been so used to being the

337
00:13:08,690 --> 00:13:06,899
the minority party in government that

338
00:13:10,610 --> 00:13:08,700
we're almost not even prepared for the

339
00:13:13,069 --> 00:13:10,620
day that suddenly someone hands us the

340
00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:13,079
reins of power and says okay you were

341
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:16,260
right there is a there there what now we

342
00:13:19,610 --> 00:13:17,760
really need to think about this I think

343
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:19,620
I would suggest to people they spend

344
00:13:23,090 --> 00:13:21,360
some time meditating grounding

345
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:23,100
themselves because it's going to be some

346
00:13:27,290 --> 00:13:25,440
crazy times ahead and a lot of people

347
00:13:30,350 --> 00:13:27,300
that have not shown interest in this

348
00:13:31,970 --> 00:13:30,360
will suddenly be asking you for for

349
00:13:34,190 --> 00:13:31,980
answers because you're the one with the

350
00:13:36,110 --> 00:13:34,200
the interest in the topic so

351
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,120
spend some time thinking about that how

352
00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:37,920
you will respond how can you break down

353
00:13:43,610 --> 00:13:41,100
this incredibly nuanced and uh complex

354
00:13:45,410 --> 00:13:43,620
Topic in a way that can help people not

355
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,420
only understand it but also not be

356
00:13:50,329 --> 00:13:47,519
completely overwhelmed by the experience

357
00:13:55,490 --> 00:13:53,090
I'm thinking of almost the stages of

358
00:13:58,850 --> 00:13:55,500
grief uh and maybe we can talk about

359
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:02,030
it will be very natural for us to

360
00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:04,079
experience a kind of grief

361
00:14:10,370 --> 00:14:07,200
in the face of this paradigm

362
00:14:14,090 --> 00:14:10,380
shifting revelation

363
00:14:15,650 --> 00:14:14,100
uh it will be if you've ever been close

364
00:14:18,290 --> 00:14:15,660
to someone and you've lost that that

365
00:14:20,269 --> 00:14:18,300
person if you've ever had a major

366
00:14:22,430 --> 00:14:20,279
disappointment in your life you know

367
00:14:26,030 --> 00:14:22,440
what that feeling is like that that

368
00:14:29,569 --> 00:14:26,040
immense sense of loss and

369
00:14:31,310 --> 00:14:29,579
that will be pretty I think palpable uh

370
00:14:33,769 --> 00:14:31,320
for for a lot of people including those

371
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:33,779
of us that have been talking about this

372
00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:36,480
in The Fringe circles there will be a

373
00:14:41,689 --> 00:14:39,000
kind of grief that this topic that we

374
00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:41,699
have in a way kind of brooded over like

375
00:14:47,329 --> 00:14:44,160
a hen over the egg is now

376
00:14:49,490 --> 00:14:47,339
you know it's left the nest and uh we

377
00:14:51,889 --> 00:14:49,500
got to see how it's going to take its

378
00:14:53,870 --> 00:14:51,899
first steps and we're going to I think

379
00:14:55,790 --> 00:14:53,880
have definite moments where we'll we'll

380
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:55,800
be upset that it's uh it's it's

381
00:15:00,290 --> 00:14:57,680
unfolding in a way that we didn't

382
00:15:02,030 --> 00:15:00,300
anticipate it would uh and that we will

383
00:15:03,769 --> 00:15:02,040
have to Grapple with that and wrestle

384
00:15:07,009 --> 00:15:03,779
with that and maybe even be frustrated

385
00:15:10,730 --> 00:15:07,019
that the voices that we may have worked

386
00:15:13,730 --> 00:15:10,740
so hard to uh to to create and Foster

387
00:15:16,430 --> 00:15:13,740
and and articulate that those voices

388
00:15:18,650 --> 00:15:16,440
could get drowned out by new voices who

389
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:18,660
really don't have a deep understanding

390
00:15:23,870 --> 00:15:21,600
of the material yet they are getting a

391
00:15:25,550 --> 00:15:23,880
great deal of attention so there's that

392
00:15:26,930 --> 00:15:25,560
level of grief for those of us who've

393
00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:26,940
been on the inside

394
00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:28,860
and then of course there's that grief

395
00:15:33,290 --> 00:15:31,620
for those who are whose whose lives are

396
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,300
now different in the face of this

397
00:15:37,610 --> 00:15:35,279
reality everything they thought they

398
00:15:39,410 --> 00:15:37,620
knew is is a has been upended and so

399
00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:39,420
they will grieve for the world that they

400
00:15:43,970 --> 00:15:41,100
knew the world that they love the world

401
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:43,980
that they understood in the face of all

402
00:15:48,530 --> 00:15:47,040
of this newness and uncertainty so you

403
00:15:50,689 --> 00:15:48,540
know those of us who are close to it as

404
00:15:53,569 --> 00:15:50,699
you said we have a responsibility I

405
00:15:55,850 --> 00:15:53,579
would argue to be present to to

406
00:15:58,850 --> 00:15:55,860
ourselves be present to the world those

407
00:16:01,970 --> 00:15:58,860
around us and and be a participant in

408
00:16:04,670 --> 00:16:01,980
that process because it is a process you

409
00:16:06,170 --> 00:16:04,680
cannot grieve and flip a light switch it

410
00:16:08,810 --> 00:16:06,180
is something that you are doing you are

411
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:08,820
grieving and that is something you will

412
00:16:13,069 --> 00:16:10,560
go through and you need to lean into

413
00:16:15,949 --> 00:16:13,079
that and and be present in that in that

414
00:16:18,050 --> 00:16:15,959
process to come out on the other end as

415
00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:18,060
a new person uh what are your thoughts

416
00:16:22,189 --> 00:16:19,980
on that

417
00:16:24,410 --> 00:16:22,199
my my first thought is that we are

418
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:24,420
officially announcing that from from the

419
00:16:27,470 --> 00:16:25,920
moment of disclosure on this podcast

420
00:16:31,009 --> 00:16:27,480
will be known as hen over the egg

421
00:16:34,009 --> 00:16:31,019
instead of liminal frame because to mark

422
00:16:36,050 --> 00:16:34,019
that change in history uh but no in all

423
00:16:37,850 --> 00:16:36,060
seriousness

424
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:37,860
yes I think that's a great point and as

425
00:16:41,689 --> 00:16:39,839
you were saying this here it made me

426
00:16:44,749 --> 00:16:41,699
think about the fact that

427
00:16:46,850 --> 00:16:44,759
many of us have spent years cultivating

428
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:46,860
this nuanced understanding of this very

429
00:16:51,050 --> 00:16:48,720
very complex phenomenon which as I've

430
00:16:53,449 --> 00:16:51,060
said many times likely involves many

431
00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:53,459
different actors from different you know

432
00:16:58,189 --> 00:16:55,860
origin sources with with different

433
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:58,199
factioning going on even within certain

434
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:59,279
types

435
00:17:04,250 --> 00:17:01,199
so it's very very complex you imagine

436
00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:04,260
someone having to sort of swallow that

437
00:17:08,750 --> 00:17:07,260
entirety in one Fell Swoop is going to

438
00:17:11,210 --> 00:17:08,760
be a lot to take on

439
00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:11,220
and on top of that you're going to have

440
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:13,500
the thought leaders quote unquote or

441
00:17:17,449 --> 00:17:15,360
social influencers and things like that

442
00:17:18,890 --> 00:17:17,459
that people will look to to give them

443
00:17:20,329 --> 00:17:18,900
some sort of guidance when those people

444
00:17:21,710 --> 00:17:20,339
don't know what they're talking about

445
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:21,720
they have no idea what they're talking

446
00:17:26,090 --> 00:17:23,280
about and they're going to wax

447
00:17:29,630 --> 00:17:26,100
philosophical but based on Bob probably

448
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:29,640
bias and Prejudice and watching too much

449
00:17:32,990 --> 00:17:31,440
science fiction or whatever or whether

450
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:33,000
it's a religious perspective they grew

451
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:34,320
up with or whatever

452
00:17:37,549 --> 00:17:36,000
there's going to be a lot of people that

453
00:17:39,230 --> 00:17:37,559
are going to be speaking about this

454
00:17:41,570 --> 00:17:39,240
unfortunately that are not very well

455
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:41,580
educated about it who'd not been

456
00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:43,919
around long enough to really have to

457
00:17:49,010 --> 00:17:46,320
ground the nuance and the complexity the

458
00:17:51,710 --> 00:17:49,020
high strangeness the tricksterness of it

459
00:17:53,090 --> 00:17:51,720
all right how space and time seems to be

460
00:17:55,370 --> 00:17:53,100
distorted and played with by this

461
00:17:56,690 --> 00:17:55,380
phenomenon these are very very complex

462
00:17:58,250 --> 00:17:56,700
issues to wrap your head around that

463
00:18:00,650 --> 00:17:58,260
that even those of us who've been doing

464
00:18:02,870 --> 00:18:00,660
this for years still reckon with the

465
00:18:05,390 --> 00:18:02,880
fact that it it basically blows our

466
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:05,400
minds so imagine people who are just

467
00:18:09,950 --> 00:18:07,320
used to on the Fly saying what their

468
00:18:12,289 --> 00:18:09,960
opinion is in our fast-paced social

469
00:18:13,909 --> 00:18:12,299
media kind of culture what is that going

470
00:18:16,669 --> 00:18:13,919
to look like when when that kind of

471
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:16,679
irresponsible

472
00:18:20,930 --> 00:18:19,200
kind of response happens after this

473
00:18:24,350 --> 00:18:20,940
disclosure moment so I think that's even

474
00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:24,360
why we saw in the past certain

475
00:18:29,870 --> 00:18:28,020
societal leaders and thought leaders

476
00:18:30,890 --> 00:18:29,880
actually being approached we talked

477
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:30,900
about this right away this has been

478
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,640
talked about before

479
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:35,280
where people were

480
00:18:40,850 --> 00:18:39,120
approach to basically help cultivate the

481
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:40,860
conversation with a certain group of

482
00:18:45,770 --> 00:18:42,960
society that they have influence over

483
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,780
because there is this recognition that

484
00:18:48,529 --> 00:18:47,039
you know people are going to turn to

485
00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:48,539
different leaders this is going to raise

486
00:18:51,650 --> 00:18:49,980
some really interesting questions about

487
00:18:53,529 --> 00:18:51,660
Authority

488
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:53,539
not the least of which is because

489
00:18:58,370 --> 00:18:55,679
suddenly we're going to be dealing with

490
00:19:00,289 --> 00:18:58,380
an intelligence that's far beyond ours

491
00:19:01,730 --> 00:19:00,299
not necessarily morally again we can

492
00:19:03,370 --> 00:19:01,740
have that conversation about what that

493
00:19:07,850 --> 00:19:03,380
means but I just mean in sheer

494
00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:07,860
intellectual computational power it just

495
00:19:13,130 --> 00:19:11,460
eclipses Us by so many times over that

496
00:19:15,169 --> 00:19:13,140
suddenly people are going to be asking

497
00:19:18,289 --> 00:19:15,179
what role does government have here what

498
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,299
role can government play when something

499
00:19:22,430 --> 00:19:20,160
that's so much more sophisticated than

500
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:22,440
us is on the scene this is going to be

501
00:19:25,370 --> 00:19:24,000
very discombobulating and for some

502
00:19:28,430 --> 00:19:25,380
people it will make them feel very

503
00:19:32,029 --> 00:19:28,440
vulnerable as well I would suggest

504
00:19:34,190 --> 00:19:32,039
no doubt there's such a I think we all

505
00:19:36,770 --> 00:19:34,200
have a sense in which the current social

506
00:19:39,169 --> 00:19:36,780
order is

507
00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:39,179
quite fragile

508
00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:40,980
um I had a conversation earlier today

509
00:19:47,450 --> 00:19:44,820
with a neighbor and it came up just how

510
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:47,460
difficult it is today to and sometimes

511
00:19:51,409 --> 00:19:49,440
even function because there's so much

512
00:19:53,870 --> 00:19:51,419
information coming at us at every sort

513
00:19:55,970 --> 00:19:53,880
of hour of the day uh the the

514
00:19:58,370 --> 00:19:55,980
traditional meaning making centers that

515
00:20:02,210 --> 00:19:58,380
we've had in the past aren't really

516
00:20:03,710 --> 00:20:02,220
there any longer uh the the Traditions

517
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:03,720
that we've grown up with right that

518
00:20:09,529 --> 00:20:06,720
we've many of us have issued uh in favor

519
00:20:11,810 --> 00:20:09,539
of we're not even quite sure what uh

520
00:20:14,150 --> 00:20:11,820
we've just sort of let ourselves adrift

521
00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:14,160
on the ocean of uh social media and

522
00:20:19,610 --> 00:20:17,340
entertainment uh and dopamine hits and

523
00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:19,620
and we we don't really have a discipline

524
00:20:25,789 --> 00:20:22,620
or routine or or any kind of meaningful

525
00:20:27,409 --> 00:20:25,799
tradition that we can latch on to and

526
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:27,419
I'm so I'm wondering will there be a

527
00:20:33,289 --> 00:20:30,240
kind of a whiplash in a way uh in the

528
00:20:36,409 --> 00:20:33,299
face of this reality where we might

529
00:20:39,289 --> 00:20:36,419
return back to some of those ways of

530
00:20:42,049 --> 00:20:39,299
thinking or or try to find comfort in

531
00:20:44,029 --> 00:20:42,059
those systems that we maybe left behind

532
00:20:47,210 --> 00:20:44,039
and look for answers there you could

533
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:47,220
imagine for example maybe churches uh

534
00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:49,440
being full of people you know seeking an

535
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:50,760
answer or seeking you know Community

536
00:20:55,789 --> 00:20:53,280
communion just to try to understand what

537
00:20:57,049 --> 00:20:55,799
it is that it is happening uh you know I

538
00:20:59,870 --> 00:20:57,059
don't know that that's too far-fetched

539
00:21:01,610 --> 00:20:59,880
to imagine or at least all of us uh may

540
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:01,620
be genuflecting in front of our phones

541
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:04,200
on social media looking for someone to

542
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:06,960
step forward who we have some sort of

543
00:21:12,770 --> 00:21:10,559
faith in as a thought leader as a a

544
00:21:14,570 --> 00:21:12,780
person of good character of course

545
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:14,580
that's obviously very subjective based

546
00:21:19,490 --> 00:21:17,039
on your particular tribe but looking for

547
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:19,500
them to give guidance Direction and some

548
00:21:25,010 --> 00:21:22,080
sort of answers in the face of this

549
00:21:28,250 --> 00:21:25,020
incredibly complex mystery

550
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:28,260
um it will consume us it will I think

551
00:21:34,010 --> 00:21:31,200
interrupt our day-to-day is fair to say

552
00:21:35,930 --> 00:21:34,020
I have a hard time imagining going to

553
00:21:37,610 --> 00:21:35,940
work and be like well I'm just gonna do

554
00:21:39,470 --> 00:21:37,620
the normal work thing that I normally do

555
00:21:42,409 --> 00:21:39,480
today and said everyone's going to want

556
00:21:44,450 --> 00:21:42,419
to talk about whatever uh the details

557
00:21:46,850 --> 00:21:44,460
are for this type of

558
00:21:48,289 --> 00:21:46,860
and now an announcement that may occur

559
00:21:51,230 --> 00:21:48,299
so

560
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:51,240
um what do you see in terms of uh you

561
00:21:54,890 --> 00:21:52,799
know kind of the Rippling effect and

562
00:21:56,570 --> 00:21:54,900
what what what systems are going to be

563
00:21:58,130 --> 00:21:56,580
affected I'm sure all of them are in

564
00:22:01,549 --> 00:21:58,140
some way but what do you see kind of

565
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:01,559
happening first you see uh you know the

566
00:22:05,870 --> 00:22:04,080
the scientific Community uh you know

567
00:22:07,850 --> 00:22:05,880
kind of us looking to science for

568
00:22:09,649 --> 00:22:07,860
answers do you see folks going back to

569
00:22:12,529 --> 00:22:09,659
religion maybe a combination of those

570
00:22:14,210 --> 00:22:12,539
things where do you see it going

571
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:14,220
yeah it's a good question I think we'll

572
00:22:18,409 --> 00:22:16,320
see both of those things happen

573
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:18,419
um as well as other things as well

574
00:22:22,370 --> 00:22:20,640
one thing it will do with the academic

575
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:22,380
community in the scientific Community is

576
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:24,480
immediately open up all sorts of new

577
00:22:29,930 --> 00:22:27,600
inquiry and and desire for inquiry and

578
00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:29,940
study because suddenly it goes from

579
00:22:33,409 --> 00:22:31,860
being something that's rumored about

580
00:22:35,210 --> 00:22:33,419
maybe in

581
00:22:37,610 --> 00:22:35,220
you know circles that are considered

582
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:37,620
kind of x-filesish and conspiracy

583
00:22:43,070 --> 00:22:40,799
conspiracy theorish suddenly we'll have

584
00:22:44,930 --> 00:22:43,080
been pronounced from on high from

585
00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:44,940
official circles that this this is a

586
00:22:48,529 --> 00:22:45,780
thing

587
00:22:50,690 --> 00:22:48,539
and suddenly that opens up so many

588
00:22:53,149 --> 00:22:50,700
questions because it already

589
00:22:55,490 --> 00:22:53,159
confounds our understanding of how the

590
00:22:57,770 --> 00:22:55,500
travel happens right how they go from

591
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:57,780
there to here whatever the there is even

592
00:23:00,590 --> 00:22:59,760
if the there is a then rather than a

593
00:23:02,090 --> 00:23:00,600
there

594
00:23:04,010 --> 00:23:02,100
you know these are these are really

595
00:23:05,810 --> 00:23:04,020
fascinating questions and part of the

596
00:23:07,789 --> 00:23:05,820
reason why this has not garnered More

597
00:23:09,289 --> 00:23:07,799
Steam in the mainstream is because we

598
00:23:12,909 --> 00:23:09,299
don't see as you and I have talked about

599
00:23:14,930 --> 00:23:12,919
on previous podcasts this trail of

600
00:23:16,490 --> 00:23:14,940
Starcraft that are coming in from

601
00:23:18,409 --> 00:23:16,500
outside of Saturn and then you know

602
00:23:20,510 --> 00:23:18,419
coming towards the Earth as we sort of

603
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:20,520
would expect based on science fiction

604
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:22,799
history instead they seem to be able to

605
00:23:27,230 --> 00:23:24,720
manipulate space-time to the point where

606
00:23:28,430 --> 00:23:27,240
you just blip in and blip out which

607
00:23:30,830 --> 00:23:28,440
again raises all sorts of questions

608
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,840
about where are they blipping out to is

609
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:32,400
that a different dimension is at a

610
00:23:36,529 --> 00:23:34,260
different place in our physical universe

611
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:36,539
is the notion of a physical Universe

612
00:23:42,169 --> 00:23:39,840
only a a localized partial construct

613
00:23:44,029 --> 00:23:42,179
which is soon to be eclipsed by a much

614
00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:44,039
broader understanding of reality these

615
00:23:49,250 --> 00:23:46,140
are all the kind of questions that will

616
00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:49,260
suddenly come to the fore per scientific

617
00:23:54,590 --> 00:23:50,700
communities because suddenly there will

618
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:54,600
be data to to look at and a passion to

619
00:24:00,110 --> 00:23:57,360
actually examine that data and to put up

620
00:24:02,510 --> 00:24:00,120
new sensor systems and try to scramble

621
00:24:04,250 --> 00:24:02,520
to to try to understand this so I think

622
00:24:07,490 --> 00:24:04,260
that's going to be revolutionary and

623
00:24:08,990 --> 00:24:07,500
will actually help to speed up this

624
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:09,000
Scientific Revolution that we're already

625
00:24:14,210 --> 00:24:11,520
in the midst of I would suggest where

626
00:24:16,310 --> 00:24:14,220
the sort of Hardcore physicalist men uh

627
00:24:18,649 --> 00:24:16,320
sort of model of reality will be quick

628
00:24:21,529 --> 00:24:18,659
quickly left behind I think based on

629
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:21,539
some of the the data that will come up

630
00:24:26,029 --> 00:24:24,480
but as you say some people when they are

631
00:24:27,649 --> 00:24:26,039
in an emergency situation when they

632
00:24:29,390 --> 00:24:27,659
sense a crisis they go back to church

633
00:24:32,330 --> 00:24:29,400
they go back to the synagogue whatever

634
00:24:34,430 --> 00:24:32,340
their you know the um whatever their

635
00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:34,440
place of worship was or their

636
00:24:38,570 --> 00:24:36,780
traditional background

637
00:24:40,430 --> 00:24:38,580
the mosque whatever it is right we're

638
00:24:42,350 --> 00:24:40,440
going to have people go into those

639
00:24:44,210 --> 00:24:42,360
circles and asking people who are in

640
00:24:46,430 --> 00:24:44,220
many ways the least prepared to talk

641
00:24:49,250 --> 00:24:46,440
about this of anyone and then these

642
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:49,260
people in these official sort of

643
00:24:54,169 --> 00:24:52,320
spiritual centers religious centers will

644
00:24:57,169 --> 00:24:54,179
feel probably the pressure of do I give

645
00:24:58,970 --> 00:24:57,179
the do I tow the party line here or do I

646
00:25:00,770 --> 00:24:58,980
actually open up the possibility that

647
00:25:03,230 --> 00:25:00,780
maybe we haven't thought broadly enough

648
00:25:06,169 --> 00:25:03,240
about these these topics and so

649
00:25:07,970 --> 00:25:06,179
who who your priest is and or your

650
00:25:10,190 --> 00:25:07,980
pastor or whatever

651
00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:10,200
your Iman whatever is going to really

652
00:25:15,289 --> 00:25:12,840
determine what kind of answer you get

653
00:25:17,570 --> 00:25:15,299
and you're going to see not just

654
00:25:19,370 --> 00:25:17,580
scientific panels being quickly put

655
00:25:21,409 --> 00:25:19,380
together to try to study this but also

656
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,419
religious panels we're going to have the

657
00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:23,760
Vatican probably scramble to to gather

658
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:25,140
people to talk and you're going to have

659
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:27,360
Evangelical circles try to do that

660
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:29,520
so it's going to be fascinating because

661
00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:32,760
every corner of our society is going to

662
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:34,740
suddenly be grappling with this topic

663
00:25:39,649 --> 00:25:37,679
how could they not and

664
00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:39,659
it's really there's so many moving parts

665
00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:41,600
that it's very difficult to know exactly

666
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:44,760
what the response will be and on top of

667
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:46,080
that as I've mentioned before there's

668
00:25:51,250 --> 00:25:48,320
always the X Factor of let's not forget

669
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:51,260
that the others are in the mix here

670
00:25:56,570 --> 00:25:53,760
standing by and watching as for the

671
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:56,580
first time our civilization grapples

672
00:26:00,769 --> 00:25:58,559
with the notion that we are not alone

673
00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:00,779
and this is being mentioned from on a

674
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:02,460
high from official circles not just

675
00:26:08,810 --> 00:26:05,600
Rumor Mill and and conspiracy theorizing

676
00:26:10,610 --> 00:26:08,820
so how will they respond and as I've

677
00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:10,620
been saying on recent podcasts and we've

678
00:26:14,930 --> 00:26:12,840
discussed many times on this show this

679
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:14,940
is also happening You could argue in the

680
00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:17,039
midst of a perfect storm where our

681
00:26:21,409 --> 00:26:19,500
civilization is facing so many major

682
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:21,419
major challenges like civilization

683
00:26:26,930 --> 00:26:24,480
ending type of challenges all of this is

684
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:26,940
happening at the same time it almost

685
00:26:30,289 --> 00:26:28,559
feels like a movie that's packed full of

686
00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:30,299
too many plot details you know it's just

687
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:32,880
it's so astonishing when you think about

688
00:26:37,370 --> 00:26:34,799
all this happening at the same time and

689
00:26:39,470 --> 00:26:37,380
I would suggest as I've said before that

690
00:26:41,390 --> 00:26:39,480
that is that is by design that the

691
00:26:42,409 --> 00:26:41,400
others increasing their interaction with

692
00:26:44,450 --> 00:26:42,419
us

693
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:44,460
official circles feeling like now they

694
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:46,320
have no choice but to respond in the

695
00:26:51,230 --> 00:26:47,760
midst of also these civilization

696
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:51,240
challenging circumstances is all part of

697
00:26:57,409 --> 00:26:54,480
the same Enterprise I would suggest

698
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,419
do you think we talked about grief do

699
00:27:02,390 --> 00:26:59,520
you think that there will be a good deal

700
00:27:05,210 --> 00:27:02,400
of anger as well I wonder if we can

701
00:27:07,970 --> 00:27:05,220
explore that emotion uh a little bit

702
00:27:09,890 --> 00:27:07,980
further I can only imagine that there

703
00:27:13,850 --> 00:27:09,900
will be those with with pointed

704
00:27:15,049 --> 00:27:13,860
questions at authorities about what they

705
00:27:23,090 --> 00:27:15,059
know

706
00:27:26,390 --> 00:27:23,100
how long has this been a secret Within

707
00:27:29,630 --> 00:27:26,400
you know certain circles uh because it

708
00:27:32,570 --> 00:27:29,640
would be pretty difficult to argue that

709
00:27:34,250 --> 00:27:32,580
that someone didn't know uh you know

710
00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:34,260
that that oh we all just sort of found

711
00:27:39,769 --> 00:27:37,740
out together in 2023 and you know nobody

712
00:27:42,890 --> 00:27:39,779
had really realized this before I think

713
00:27:46,190 --> 00:27:42,900
there's enough uh in the cultural

714
00:27:48,649 --> 00:27:46,200
Zeitgeist uh understanding of this topic

715
00:27:50,330 --> 00:27:48,659
even on the very surface level that the

716
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:50,340
governments of the world or at least a

717
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:53,840
government has kept some pretty uh

718
00:27:59,890 --> 00:27:57,600
Monumental Secrets uh what will be the

719
00:28:04,190 --> 00:27:59,900
repercussions of

720
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:04,200
the intense level of attention on this

721
00:28:09,710 --> 00:28:07,679
topic to our leaders to our governmental

722
00:28:12,769 --> 00:28:09,720
leaders and and what kind of

723
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:12,779
responsibility do they have in your view

724
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:17,039
to offer a kind of uh a mea culpa even

725
00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:18,960
if they weren't necessarily the ones

726
00:28:23,930 --> 00:28:21,120
that said hey let's let's put it in the

727
00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:23,940
default and never open this again but

728
00:28:29,390 --> 00:28:26,820
they inherited those secrets from their

729
00:28:31,970 --> 00:28:29,400
legacy predecessors what responsibility

730
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:31,980
they have to say you know we messed up

731
00:28:36,970 --> 00:28:34,799
here and uh at the time when this

732
00:28:41,090 --> 00:28:36,980
decision was made it made a lot of sense

733
00:28:42,890 --> 00:28:41,100
but uh as you know when you tell a lie

734
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:42,900
as a kid you have to tell another lie

735
00:28:47,690 --> 00:28:45,360
and another lie until eventually it goes

736
00:28:49,610 --> 00:28:47,700
it grows so big that you cannot control

737
00:28:52,190 --> 00:28:49,620
it any longer and that's essentially

738
00:28:53,049 --> 00:28:52,200
where we are and you have to pay the

739
00:28:56,690 --> 00:28:53,059
price

740
00:28:58,850 --> 00:28:56,700
for that falsehood so what what do you

741
00:29:01,070 --> 00:28:58,860
see in terms of a social reaction there

742
00:29:03,289 --> 00:29:01,080
and and the way leadership May respond

743
00:29:04,789 --> 00:29:03,299
in the face of it

744
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:04,799
it's a great question because if you

745
00:29:08,090 --> 00:29:06,000
think about it

746
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:08,100
government's going to be asking the

747
00:29:13,310 --> 00:29:09,840
populace to trust us while we navigate

748
00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:13,320
these Waters while also admitting that

749
00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:15,900
there's been a 75 year at least lie

750
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:17,640
being told

751
00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:20,159
a great deception being perpetrated so

752
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:23,460
this is this is challenging in itself to

753
00:29:27,529 --> 00:29:25,679
say such a thing to the populace of

754
00:29:29,330 --> 00:29:27,539
course many people in ufology will feel

755
00:29:32,029 --> 00:29:29,340
finally vindication

756
00:29:35,090 --> 00:29:32,039
these things that we knew all along long

757
00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:35,100
suspected anyway were only

758
00:29:38,810 --> 00:29:37,260
superficially interested in studying

759
00:29:40,970 --> 00:29:38,820
this they're more interested in studying

760
00:29:42,409 --> 00:29:40,980
it internally while suppressing it

761
00:29:43,850 --> 00:29:42,419
externally

762
00:29:45,470 --> 00:29:43,860
because they were basically just trying

763
00:29:46,850 --> 00:29:45,480
to buy time they were trying to kick the

764
00:29:48,350 --> 00:29:46,860
can down the road hoping they could

765
00:29:50,269 --> 00:29:48,360
understand that

766
00:29:54,350 --> 00:29:50,279
so now that's one question I would ask

767
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:54,360
people to really think about is why now

768
00:29:57,889 --> 00:29:55,919
there are many answers to that question

769
00:29:59,389 --> 00:29:57,899
I think but I would ask people to spend

770
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:59,399
some time thinking about that maybe in

771
00:30:03,710 --> 00:30:02,159
the future we can unwrap that a bit

772
00:30:05,870 --> 00:30:03,720
but yeah this is this is going to be

773
00:30:08,930 --> 00:30:05,880
interesting because

774
00:30:10,490 --> 00:30:08,940
we already have such distrust in

775
00:30:12,830 --> 00:30:10,500
government right now

776
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:12,840
in American society we've never been

777
00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:15,120
more divided since the Civil War many

778
00:30:19,610 --> 00:30:16,860
people think we're inevitably headed

779
00:30:21,649 --> 00:30:19,620
towards that kind of eventuality again

780
00:30:24,649 --> 00:30:21,659
and so in the midst of that you have

781
00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:24,659
this groundbreaking news coming out and

782
00:30:28,669 --> 00:30:26,100
I would also suggest or remind people

783
00:30:31,070 --> 00:30:28,679
that government is not one thing it is

784
00:30:32,690 --> 00:30:31,080
not a monolith even in the U.S here we

785
00:30:34,610 --> 00:30:32,700
have different branches of government by

786
00:30:36,110 --> 00:30:34,620
Design so you're going to have a little

787
00:30:37,789 --> 00:30:36,120
bit of posturing between the different

788
00:30:38,990 --> 00:30:37,799
branches of government in terms of how

789
00:30:41,289 --> 00:30:39,000
they're going to handle this you're not

790
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:41,299
going to have a one-size-fits-all

791
00:30:45,769 --> 00:30:43,760
unanimous kind of Monolithic

792
00:30:46,850 --> 00:30:45,779
announcement from the different branches

793
00:30:47,810 --> 00:30:46,860
of government you're going to have the

794
00:30:51,649 --> 00:30:47,820
different branches of government

795
00:30:53,870 --> 00:30:51,659
actually posturing and posing questions

796
00:30:56,269 --> 00:30:53,880
to each other while this comes out as

797
00:30:57,230 --> 00:30:56,279
well so this is fascinating in itself

798
00:30:58,850 --> 00:30:57,240
and then you've got different

799
00:31:00,110 --> 00:30:58,860
governments we've got some governments

800
00:31:02,090 --> 00:31:00,120
in the world

801
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,100
that have had crash retrieval programs

802
00:31:06,889 --> 00:31:04,320
that I'm aware of that were actually

803
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:06,899
legal and they were on the books and was

804
00:31:12,590 --> 00:31:09,360
conducted according to you know the

805
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:12,600
auspices of democracy others like in our

806
00:31:16,490 --> 00:31:14,880
country were not done legally from all

807
00:31:18,830 --> 00:31:16,500
intents and purposes it certainly seems

808
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:18,840
like there was a loopholes and whatnot

809
00:31:23,090 --> 00:31:21,360
used to basically use taxpayer money

810
00:31:25,549 --> 00:31:23,100
while this was being investigated for

811
00:31:27,950 --> 00:31:25,559
decades and not being acknowledged not

812
00:31:30,889 --> 00:31:27,960
really having any oversight taking place

813
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:30,899
so this is again all of that Revelation

814
00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:33,840
is happening right when we say

815
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:35,820
while we're acknowledging that let's not

816
00:31:39,409 --> 00:31:37,679
forget the pink elephant in the room

817
00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:39,419
which is that there is another

818
00:31:45,289 --> 00:31:41,279
intelligence here and they've been here

819
00:31:47,510 --> 00:31:45,299
perhaps longer than we have they are so

820
00:31:49,130 --> 00:31:47,520
Advanced So Sophisticated that they can

821
00:31:51,169 --> 00:31:49,140
run circles around us to the point where

822
00:31:53,090 --> 00:31:51,179
we didn't even realize the vast majority

823
00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:53,100
of us that they've been here and they've

824
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:54,720
been conducting Affairs and to some

825
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:55,919
degree

826
00:32:00,289 --> 00:31:58,320
managing aspects of our civilization

827
00:32:02,570 --> 00:32:00,299
even potentially aspects of our

828
00:32:03,769 --> 00:32:02,580
governmental programs so these are the

829
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:03,779
kinds of questions that are going to be

830
00:32:07,789 --> 00:32:06,000
surfacing for people and when you

831
00:32:10,250 --> 00:32:07,799
already have a huge parts of the

832
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:10,260
population distrusting government

833
00:32:14,810 --> 00:32:12,240
then the last thing you could argue that

834
00:32:17,149 --> 00:32:14,820
our society needs on the one hand is

835
00:32:18,769 --> 00:32:17,159
just one more rug pulled out from under

836
00:32:20,029 --> 00:32:18,779
us in terms of trust of those

837
00:32:21,950 --> 00:32:20,039
institutions

838
00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:21,960
at the same time I think what's more

839
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:23,940
important to highlight here is that

840
00:32:28,610 --> 00:32:26,159
again our civilization is on the brink

841
00:32:31,070 --> 00:32:28,620
we are closer to collapse I would

842
00:32:33,169 --> 00:32:31,080
suggest that many people realize

843
00:32:34,909 --> 00:32:33,179
the messages from these others is very

844
00:32:37,250 --> 00:32:34,919
much along those lines I want to make

845
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:37,260
that point very clearly

846
00:32:42,889 --> 00:32:40,320
so we need a wake-up call in other words

847
00:32:47,289 --> 00:32:42,899
and this may be the very thing that we

848
00:32:50,570 --> 00:32:47,299
need to to consider really substantially

849
00:32:52,450 --> 00:32:50,580
sustainably rethinking the very way we

850
00:32:55,610 --> 00:32:52,460
conduct our Affairs as a civilization

851
00:32:56,570 --> 00:32:55,620
and perhaps as Ronald Reagan said back

852
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:56,580
in the day

853
00:33:01,250 --> 00:32:59,039
perhaps being aware of an intelligence

854
00:33:02,990 --> 00:33:01,260
that's from Beyond the Earth

855
00:33:04,909 --> 00:33:03,000
might be the one thing that finally

856
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:04,919
begins to unite us as a people and

857
00:33:09,769 --> 00:33:06,960
changes fundamentally the way we behave

858
00:33:12,049 --> 00:33:09,779
as a civilization

859
00:33:14,330 --> 00:33:12,059
right I would hope that it humbles us

860
00:33:18,430 --> 00:33:14,340
that

861
00:33:23,690 --> 00:33:21,169
earth-shattering news

862
00:33:25,730 --> 00:33:23,700
even if we might be feeling those

863
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:25,740
intense you know feelings of grief or

864
00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:26,880
anger

865
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:29,940
that we feel that sense of humility and

866
00:33:36,169 --> 00:33:32,640
wonder and lean into

867
00:33:39,250 --> 00:33:36,179
the the new space that is created

868
00:33:41,810 --> 00:33:39,260
in the wake of such an announcement

869
00:33:43,730 --> 00:33:41,820
because you you have a tremendous

870
00:33:45,710 --> 00:33:43,740
opportunity and I think I think our

871
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:45,720
governments have a tremendous

872
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:48,240
opportunity here as well even if they

873
00:33:52,730 --> 00:33:50,880
have a degree of culpability

874
00:33:54,409 --> 00:33:52,740
and keeping things secret

875
00:33:58,430 --> 00:33:54,419
they have an opportunity for

876
00:34:02,029 --> 00:33:58,440
transparency and uh and a level of a

877
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,039
deeper intimacy with their population uh

878
00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:04,159
in the in the face of such an enormous

879
00:34:11,210 --> 00:34:07,860
truth that that a great deal of trust

880
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:11,220
could be restored if if done well if

881
00:34:16,430 --> 00:34:14,399
done right uh you know you you you

882
00:34:19,250 --> 00:34:16,440
certainly wouldn't uh

883
00:34:21,470 --> 00:34:19,260
begrudge the the population though the

884
00:34:24,530 --> 00:34:21,480
populace to to have their doubts right

885
00:34:26,270 --> 00:34:24,540
as you said earlier you know you want us

886
00:34:28,849 --> 00:34:26,280
to trust you and you've not been telling

887
00:34:30,829 --> 00:34:28,859
us and up and forthright with us so what

888
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:30,839
are you going to do now how are you

889
00:34:36,730 --> 00:34:34,320
going to demonstrate to us that you are

890
00:34:39,589 --> 00:34:36,740
proceeding in good faith that you are

891
00:34:43,550 --> 00:34:39,599
including us in the conversation that

892
00:34:46,129 --> 00:34:43,560
you've got a wide uh casting a wide net

893
00:34:48,050 --> 00:34:46,139
for folks to participate in

894
00:34:50,510 --> 00:34:48,060
understanding what this is because it

895
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:50,520
really will require I think in a way

896
00:34:56,530 --> 00:34:52,879
that maybe hasn't been performed before

897
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:56,540
almost a a very public Manhattan Project

898
00:35:03,230 --> 00:35:00,480
of of of people from a wide number of

899
00:35:05,930 --> 00:35:03,240
disciplines and experiences and walks of

900
00:35:07,790 --> 00:35:05,940
life and I think I I'm speaking for a

901
00:35:09,890 --> 00:35:07,800
second here on behalf of experiencers

902
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:09,900
although I'm not one myself but those

903
00:35:14,690 --> 00:35:12,480
who've had Direct experience with this

904
00:35:17,630 --> 00:35:14,700
kind of intelligence who don't have a

905
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:17,640
PhD or aren't the leader of a Fortune

906
00:35:23,210 --> 00:35:20,400
100 company or aren't an elected

907
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:23,220
official they've had real tangible

908
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:26,160
experience sometimes generationally with

909
00:35:31,970 --> 00:35:29,520
this intelligence and they deserve quite

910
00:35:35,329 --> 00:35:31,980
frankly exceeded those tables in those

911
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:35,339
conversations so you know how do you see

912
00:35:41,089 --> 00:35:38,400
that taking place do you see that there

913
00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:41,099
might be an opportunity to include those

914
00:35:46,609 --> 00:35:44,280
voices and and if not immediately which

915
00:35:48,290 --> 00:35:46,619
I think may be the case because

916
00:35:50,750 --> 00:35:48,300
you first have to kind of let the horse

917
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:50,760
leave the barn and then then you can go

918
00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:53,520
go for the ride right so uh how do you

919
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,200
see it unfolding do you think that that

920
00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:57,359
will eventually occur if not in the

921
00:36:01,970 --> 00:35:59,280
immediacy of the announcement but later

922
00:36:04,130 --> 00:36:01,980
on experiencers being brought into that

923
00:36:06,410 --> 00:36:04,140
conversation

924
00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:06,420
it surely seems like now is the right

925
00:36:12,109 --> 00:36:09,720
time for that part of the the farce that

926
00:36:14,510 --> 00:36:12,119
this appears to be to people my friend

927
00:36:16,490 --> 00:36:14,520
Stuart Davis sort of threw up his hands

928
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:16,500
a year ago and was just frustrated that

929
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:18,000
we were still asking the same questions

930
00:36:21,710 --> 00:36:19,680
we've been asking for five years 10

931
00:36:23,089 --> 00:36:21,720
years 20 years talking about the craft

932
00:36:25,010 --> 00:36:23,099
in the sky

933
00:36:26,690 --> 00:36:25,020
kind of missing the more obvious

934
00:36:28,849 --> 00:36:26,700
question which is who are the beings

935
00:36:31,069 --> 00:36:28,859
operating the craft whether you know

936
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:31,079
directly or remotely or whatever and

937
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:32,880
it's not like that's a complete mystery

938
00:36:37,790 --> 00:36:35,119
we've had like you say experiencers

939
00:36:40,130 --> 00:36:37,800
encountering the beings themselves for

940
00:36:41,810 --> 00:36:40,140
decades and decades and decades and

941
00:36:44,930 --> 00:36:41,820
while there's a lot of high strangeness

942
00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:44,940
and Paradox in this phenomenon there's a

943
00:36:48,410 --> 00:36:46,920
remarkable consistency in the nature of

944
00:36:51,290 --> 00:36:48,420
the messages too

945
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:51,300
so absolutely there is

946
00:36:54,890 --> 00:36:53,280
valuable information to be gathered

947
00:36:56,089 --> 00:36:54,900
there if you think about intelligent

948
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:56,099
circles

949
00:36:59,390 --> 00:36:57,839
what they do when they go into foreign

950
00:37:02,270 --> 00:36:59,400
countries is they try to Foster

951
00:37:04,910 --> 00:37:02,280
relationships and gather information by

952
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:04,920
building relationships that should

953
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:08,640
happen here we should have a grand and

954
00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:11,280
deep and Broad intelligence operation

955
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:12,960
that basically is going to try to

956
00:37:17,690 --> 00:37:15,839
understand what the messages are who

957
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:17,700
these beings are what their intentions

958
00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:18,960
are

959
00:37:23,089 --> 00:37:21,180
again I would suggest that that's

960
00:37:25,730 --> 00:37:23,099
complex there are different factions

961
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:25,740
different groups again I think that

962
00:37:28,849 --> 00:37:27,119
what you're going to see initially

963
00:37:30,349 --> 00:37:28,859
because I still see this happening on

964
00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:30,359
UFO Twitter so I'm sure it'll happen in

965
00:37:35,150 --> 00:37:32,400
the broader Society too which is kind of

966
00:37:37,130 --> 00:37:35,160
a conflation of all the messages and all

967
00:37:39,710 --> 00:37:37,140
the encounters over time to assume it's

968
00:37:41,569 --> 00:37:39,720
all one thing I think that's a mistake I

969
00:37:43,370 --> 00:37:41,579
think we have to be cautious and look

970
00:37:46,490 --> 00:37:43,380
for patterns in the data

971
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:46,500
I think that even though some people

972
00:37:50,089 --> 00:37:48,240
would question some of the means by

973
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:50,099
which some of the encounters have taken

974
00:37:53,690 --> 00:37:52,560
place some of the hybridization programs

975
00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:53,700
and whatnot

976
00:37:58,010 --> 00:37:55,740
that have been reported over time even

977
00:38:01,370 --> 00:37:58,020
the abduction experiences again I would

978
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:01,380
really want to impress upon people here

979
00:38:07,069 --> 00:38:04,560
the notion that it is not as agency

980
00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:07,079
robbing as it appears now on a certain

981
00:38:11,690 --> 00:38:09,480
level it is no doubt and some people

982
00:38:14,510 --> 00:38:11,700
have even cried Stockholm syndrome that

983
00:38:16,849 --> 00:38:14,520
any people who Proclaim these beings to

984
00:38:18,890 --> 00:38:16,859
be good and well-meaning in the big

985
00:38:20,030 --> 00:38:18,900
picture how can they be when they when

986
00:38:22,910 --> 00:38:20,040
they abduct people from their homes

987
00:38:25,310 --> 00:38:22,920
against their will apparently

988
00:38:27,290 --> 00:38:25,320
fair point but again I think when you

989
00:38:29,329 --> 00:38:27,300
look closely at this and I have and I

990
00:38:31,490 --> 00:38:29,339
have friends and colleagues who've been

991
00:38:34,370 --> 00:38:31,500
involved in those introduction and

992
00:38:37,069 --> 00:38:34,380
experiences going back 30 years

993
00:38:38,810 --> 00:38:37,079
when you look closely it is not a slam

994
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:38,820
dunk case of the Stockholm syndrome I

995
00:38:45,170 --> 00:38:41,520
think really there is over time this

996
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:45,180
sense of a grander mission a sense of

997
00:38:51,170 --> 00:38:48,720
purpose in life a sense of this is about

998
00:38:53,390 --> 00:38:51,180
life itself moving forward and learning

999
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:53,400
and US learning but also them as well

1000
00:38:58,010 --> 00:38:55,680
and that's even part of the the goals

1001
00:39:00,109 --> 00:38:58,020
with the hybridization program so some

1002
00:39:02,930 --> 00:39:00,119
people are going to become privy to

1003
00:39:03,950 --> 00:39:02,940
those kinds of aspects of the data I'm

1004
00:39:05,569 --> 00:39:03,960
talking about people who've never heard

1005
00:39:07,310 --> 00:39:05,579
about this before and be terrified

1006
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:07,320
because of that right you're telling me

1007
00:39:10,190 --> 00:39:09,359
that beings can appear in my room in the

1008
00:39:12,109 --> 00:39:10,200
middle of the night it doesn't matter

1009
00:39:14,450 --> 00:39:12,119
how many padlocks I have in the door it

1010
00:39:16,430 --> 00:39:14,460
doesn't matter how many you know uh

1011
00:39:19,010 --> 00:39:16,440
rifles I have under my bed I can't do

1012
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:19,020
anything and the answer is no you can't

1013
00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:21,540
and maybe it's time to get beyond that

1014
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:23,700
kind of thinking this sort of ego

1015
00:39:27,650 --> 00:39:26,160
Transcendence is is important I know

1016
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:27,660
some people are going to say I'm giving

1017
00:39:33,290 --> 00:39:31,440
too much power and to these others and

1018
00:39:35,390 --> 00:39:33,300
not being cautious enough I understand

1019
00:39:36,770 --> 00:39:35,400
that we can later get into the

1020
00:39:38,329 --> 00:39:36,780
developmental levels and how they look

1021
00:39:40,010 --> 00:39:38,339
at these things differently

1022
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:40,020
but I'm just saying the data itself

1023
00:39:44,750 --> 00:39:42,720
suggests that that's the case that

1024
00:39:47,089 --> 00:39:44,760
people

1025
00:39:48,890 --> 00:39:47,099
largely come to this this sense of

1026
00:39:50,750 --> 00:39:48,900
understanding of at least be seeing it

1027
00:39:52,010 --> 00:39:50,760
as a neutral but often as a positive

1028
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:52,020
experience

1029
00:39:56,510 --> 00:39:54,720
so I think we need to keep that in mind

1030
00:39:58,849 --> 00:39:56,520
and that needs to come front and center

1031
00:40:00,290 --> 00:39:58,859
we need to get Beyond just saying this

1032
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:00,300
has involved abductions and

1033
00:40:04,250 --> 00:40:02,640
hybridization that sounds not good we

1034
00:40:07,609 --> 00:40:04,260
need to listen to experiences when they

1035
00:40:09,530 --> 00:40:07,619
say it's more complex than that my My

1036
00:40:10,910 --> 00:40:09,540
overall take is I'm glad this happened

1037
00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:10,920
in the big picture yes it was

1038
00:40:16,310 --> 00:40:13,440
traumatizing initially but it also sort

1039
00:40:18,109 --> 00:40:16,320
of shook me out of my stupor and to

1040
00:40:20,569 --> 00:40:18,119
quote Whitley Streeper here another

1041
00:40:22,310 --> 00:40:20,579
experiencer he talks about this being

1042
00:40:24,730 --> 00:40:22,320
all those things shocking and

1043
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:24,740
traumatizing initially but also

1044
00:40:28,670 --> 00:40:27,119
affording us the greatest potential for

1045
00:40:30,890 --> 00:40:28,680
Spiritual transformation in the history

1046
00:40:33,770 --> 00:40:30,900
of our civilization and again I just

1047
00:40:36,170 --> 00:40:33,780
want to remind people we need that we do

1048
00:40:37,550 --> 00:40:36,180
not have another 30 years to carry on

1049
00:40:39,770 --> 00:40:37,560
the way we are now that's what I would

1050
00:40:42,290 --> 00:40:39,780
suggest again I think that comes back to

1051
00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:42,300
why this is all happening now

1052
00:40:47,089 --> 00:40:45,540
but absolutely my goal is to help

1053
00:40:48,829 --> 00:40:47,099
experiences be part of that conversation

1054
00:40:50,690 --> 00:40:48,839
I know with the John Mack Institute we

1055
00:40:53,569 --> 00:40:50,700
want to do that we want to engage with

1056
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:53,579
scientists and academics and media but

1057
00:40:58,089 --> 00:40:55,920
we very much expect and plan to have

1058
00:41:00,829 --> 00:40:58,099
experiencers at that table because

1059
00:41:03,170 --> 00:41:00,839
that's essential to really begin to make

1060
00:41:04,730 --> 00:41:03,180
sense of this whole thing

1061
00:41:07,190 --> 00:41:04,740
well I wondered if we could spend a

1062
00:41:09,950 --> 00:41:07,200
little more time going through the

1063
00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:09,960
developmental levels and the different

1064
00:41:14,329 --> 00:41:11,940
kinds of responses that people may have

1065
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,339
based on the level that they may find

1066
00:41:18,190 --> 00:41:16,800
themselves in uh and I think it's

1067
00:41:20,990 --> 00:41:18,200
important to remind

1068
00:41:23,690 --> 00:41:21,000
ourselves that the world is full of of

1069
00:41:27,170 --> 00:41:23,700
humans that are in all different walks

1070
00:41:29,569 --> 00:41:27,180
of life that there are humans who are

1071
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:29,579
still living in uh you know third world

1072
00:41:35,089 --> 00:41:32,640
environments or uh you know that don't

1073
00:41:36,770 --> 00:41:35,099
have the kind of luxuries that we have

1074
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:36,780
in the west

1075
00:41:41,150 --> 00:41:39,359
um and even in you know no matter where

1076
00:41:43,550 --> 00:41:41,160
they live there are different humans who

1077
00:41:46,430 --> 00:41:43,560
have different uh perspectives on

1078
00:41:49,069 --> 00:41:46,440
uh you know kind of the the metaphysical

1079
00:41:51,890 --> 00:41:49,079
reality of of the world you know and how

1080
00:41:55,310 --> 00:41:51,900
how things work and so you and I both

1081
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:55,320
know that where you find yourself uh the

1082
00:41:59,089 --> 00:41:57,359
context in which you find uh that you

1083
00:42:03,710 --> 00:41:59,099
make sense of the world that dictates

1084
00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:03,720
your response to information and uh when

1085
00:42:08,569 --> 00:42:05,820
you're when you're presented with

1086
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:08,579
information that does not fit into that

1087
00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:10,800
model of the world that helps you make

1088
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:13,440
sense of things well then cracks begin

1089
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:17,040
to form the model begins to break and

1090
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:19,200
and ultimately transform and I think the

1091
00:42:24,589 --> 00:42:21,119
the concern that I would have of course

1092
00:42:28,730 --> 00:42:24,599
is is how severe is the breakage uh can

1093
00:42:32,030 --> 00:42:28,740
we uh navigate that transformation in a

1094
00:42:34,370 --> 00:42:32,040
way that is uh safe and healthy for not

1095
00:42:38,030 --> 00:42:34,380
only the individual but also for the

1096
00:42:38,750 --> 00:42:38,040
society uh and so you know what do you

1097
00:42:41,690 --> 00:42:38,760
think

1098
00:42:44,510 --> 00:42:41,700
Not only would be you know sort of

1099
00:42:46,490 --> 00:42:44,520
helpful recommendations uh to to be

1100
00:42:49,069 --> 00:42:46,500
thinking about for folks that are going

1101
00:42:50,990 --> 00:42:49,079
to be processing this

1102
00:42:53,329 --> 00:42:51,000
um but but what might be some of the

1103
00:42:56,510 --> 00:42:53,339
reactions based on some of the varying

1104
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:56,520
developmental levels that we we see in

1105
00:43:01,849 --> 00:42:59,760
human symbolization today

1106
00:43:03,470 --> 00:43:01,859
yeah that is the the six million dollar

1107
00:43:04,849 --> 00:43:03,480
question

1108
00:43:06,410 --> 00:43:04,859
because

1109
00:43:08,270 --> 00:43:06,420
as I've said before and as we've

1110
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:08,280
discussed on this podcast

1111
00:43:13,609 --> 00:43:10,079
many people keep asking this question

1112
00:43:15,490 --> 00:43:13,619
what will the human response be to this

1113
00:43:17,690 --> 00:43:15,500
Revelation what will the

1114
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:17,700
civilization-wide response be to this

1115
00:43:22,250 --> 00:43:19,680
Revelation these series of Revelations

1116
00:43:24,410 --> 00:43:22,260
and really there is no such thing as one

1117
00:43:25,490 --> 00:43:24,420
response as you say there are many

1118
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:25,500
different

1119
00:43:29,089 --> 00:43:27,599
types of people around the world in very

1120
00:43:30,589 --> 00:43:29,099
different conditions living under very

1121
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:30,599
different conditions

1122
00:43:34,670 --> 00:43:32,880
that's part of what's the problem that

1123
00:43:35,809 --> 00:43:34,680
we need to begin to work towards a

1124
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:35,819
solution

1125
00:43:39,710 --> 00:43:38,400
but even within one country you have

1126
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:39,720
different World Views I've discussed

1127
00:43:44,569 --> 00:43:42,000
before how even in the United States you

1128
00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:44,579
have three very different World Views

1129
00:43:49,490 --> 00:43:47,040
coexisting and it fundamentally changes

1130
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:49,500
the way that people look at reality at

1131
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:51,119
themselves at others at the way

1132
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:52,800
government should should work all those

1133
00:43:56,089 --> 00:43:53,760
things

1134
00:43:57,530 --> 00:43:56,099
are are changed because of these World

1135
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,540
Views so

1136
00:44:01,730 --> 00:43:59,280
you have to realize you can read the

1137
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:01,740
same Public Relation statement

1138
00:44:05,809 --> 00:44:04,079
but how people are going to hear it is

1139
00:44:07,790 --> 00:44:05,819
very different based not only just on

1140
00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:07,800
their personal history but also on their

1141
00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:09,780
level of development

1142
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:12,660
this this is key and interestingly even

1143
00:44:15,730 --> 00:44:13,680
when you look at the abduction

1144
00:44:19,069 --> 00:44:15,740
literature and the contact literature

1145
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:19,079
people's responses at least initially in

1146
00:44:23,630 --> 00:44:21,359
terms of their interpretation of the

1147
00:44:24,770 --> 00:44:23,640
events really did differ depending on

1148
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:24,780
their level of Developmental

1149
00:44:30,349 --> 00:44:27,599
Consciousness so we can also expect that

1150
00:44:32,089 --> 00:44:30,359
will happen on a civilization-wide level

1151
00:44:35,450 --> 00:44:32,099
as well

1152
00:44:38,329 --> 00:44:35,460
some people just look at the unknown

1153
00:44:40,010 --> 00:44:38,339
as a fearful thing some people just have

1154
00:44:41,450 --> 00:44:40,020
a default response to anything that

1155
00:44:43,630 --> 00:44:41,460
comes here that I don't know what it is

1156
00:44:46,730 --> 00:44:43,640
it's not already part of my

1157
00:44:49,069 --> 00:44:46,740
understanding and familiarity that's

1158
00:44:50,930 --> 00:44:49,079
that's already something that could be

1159
00:44:52,430 --> 00:44:50,940
dangerous for me they see it as a threat

1160
00:44:54,829 --> 00:44:52,440
right away

1161
00:44:56,809 --> 00:44:54,839
not only in terms of we've discussed

1162
00:44:58,069 --> 00:44:56,819
before how military establishments kind

1163
00:45:00,109 --> 00:44:58,079
of that becomes part of the default

1164
00:45:01,730 --> 00:45:00,119
culture right anything you can't can't

1165
00:45:04,730 --> 00:45:01,740
understand you don't know you see as a

1166
00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:04,740
Potential Threat right but even

1167
00:45:10,130 --> 00:45:06,960
people in certain worldview perspectives

1168
00:45:13,250 --> 00:45:10,140
will also see it that way I have a very

1169
00:45:15,170 --> 00:45:13,260
clear defined delineated understanding

1170
00:45:17,210 --> 00:45:15,180
of what there is in reality and when I'm

1171
00:45:19,490 --> 00:45:17,220
suddenly presented with something that

1172
00:45:22,010 --> 00:45:19,500
does not fit that I'll either try to

1173
00:45:23,329 --> 00:45:22,020
force it into like a square peg into a

1174
00:45:27,050 --> 00:45:23,339
round hole something that doesn't really

1175
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:27,060
fit I'll uh Angels and Demons perhaps or

1176
00:45:31,490 --> 00:45:28,800
I will

1177
00:45:34,010 --> 00:45:31,500
have a kind of existential crisis

1178
00:45:36,770 --> 00:45:34,020
because this thing does not fit within

1179
00:45:39,530 --> 00:45:36,780
any aspect of my previous model and then

1180
00:45:41,329 --> 00:45:39,540
you have full-on ontological shock and

1181
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:41,339
existential crisis happening at the same

1182
00:45:43,609 --> 00:45:42,240
time

1183
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:43,619
and you're even going to get people as

1184
00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:45,119
I've discussed before

1185
00:45:49,370 --> 00:45:46,560
from different World Views and different

1186
00:45:51,589 --> 00:45:49,380
developmental levels then

1187
00:45:54,349 --> 00:45:51,599
becoming acrimonious towards each other

1188
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:54,359
how can you possibly see these beings as

1189
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:55,920
good they're demons they're here to

1190
00:45:59,089 --> 00:45:57,839
deceive you and if that's the

1191
00:46:01,670 --> 00:45:59,099
perspective you're going to take then

1192
00:46:03,290 --> 00:46:01,680
you're a messenger of the enemy and we

1193
00:46:05,930 --> 00:46:03,300
go to war with you because of this right

1194
00:46:08,030 --> 00:46:05,940
these are the kind of things that's not

1195
00:46:10,730 --> 00:46:08,040
way out there fiction this is the kind

1196
00:46:13,069 --> 00:46:10,740
of posturing I think we will see because

1197
00:46:14,329 --> 00:46:13,079
no matter how nicely you try to paint it

1198
00:46:16,190 --> 00:46:14,339
and not no matter how much you try to

1199
00:46:17,809 --> 00:46:16,200
get ahead of the narrative some people

1200
00:46:19,849 --> 00:46:17,819
are going to try to force us into those

1201
00:46:21,950 --> 00:46:19,859
default narratives as soon as they hear

1202
00:46:25,490 --> 00:46:21,960
these Revelations

1203
00:46:28,849 --> 00:46:25,500
yeah I want to be hopeful that

1204
00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:28,859
it's going to be a catalyst for really

1205
00:46:34,730 --> 00:46:32,760
positive change but I as you as you were

1206
00:46:39,710 --> 00:46:34,740
just talking there I'm reminded of how

1207
00:46:43,609 --> 00:46:39,720
reactionary we can be and to me at least

1208
00:46:47,150 --> 00:46:43,619
the the most successful outcome we could

1209
00:46:50,450 --> 00:46:47,160
have here would be a response from these

1210
00:46:52,670 --> 00:46:50,460
others themselves uh that as our

1211
00:46:56,170 --> 00:46:52,680
societal awareness becomes more

1212
00:46:59,690 --> 00:46:56,180
prevalent that they become more knowable

1213
00:47:04,130 --> 00:46:59,700
because without their uh

1214
00:47:06,349 --> 00:47:04,140
you know voice at the table so to speak

1215
00:47:09,290 --> 00:47:06,359
um we really are kind of having this

1216
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:09,300
conversation in a bit of a vacuum

1217
00:47:14,450 --> 00:47:12,000
um and and we may need that you know

1218
00:47:18,530 --> 00:47:14,460
voice to serve as kind of a hall monitor

1219
00:47:19,370 --> 00:47:18,540
or uh you know to quiet the room

1220
00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:19,380
um

1221
00:47:24,170 --> 00:47:21,900
and so it will be interesting to see

1222
00:47:25,970 --> 00:47:24,180
what whether that takes place and it

1223
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:25,980
will be interesting as well if it does

1224
00:47:29,510 --> 00:47:27,359
not

1225
00:47:32,690 --> 00:47:29,520
um because that speaks something to me

1226
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:32,700
uh just as loudly as if if it were to

1227
00:47:35,450 --> 00:47:34,079
take place

1228
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:35,460
um and I wonder I know you did talk

1229
00:47:40,609 --> 00:47:37,920
about this earlier in this episode but

1230
00:47:44,870 --> 00:47:40,619
you know the the so the whole notion of

1231
00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:44,880
why now and and what might be the uh

1232
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:48,780
collection of converging factors that

1233
00:47:56,089 --> 00:47:53,520
are driving this moment in in time

1234
00:47:59,210 --> 00:47:56,099
um it may be something that is

1235
00:48:01,849 --> 00:47:59,220
unavoidable uh that

1236
00:48:04,430 --> 00:48:01,859
now is the time and there is no other

1237
00:48:07,849 --> 00:48:04,440
time it must be now for a variety of

1238
00:48:10,010 --> 00:48:07,859
reasons not just that the government may

1239
00:48:13,910 --> 00:48:10,020
have their hand forced

1240
00:48:17,150 --> 00:48:13,920
um but it is the right time for the

1241
00:48:20,930 --> 00:48:19,430
yeah it's again one of the 10 million

1242
00:48:23,809 --> 00:48:20,940
dollar questions I keep up in the ante

1243
00:48:24,650 --> 00:48:23,819
in terms of how expensive is

1244
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:24,660
um

1245
00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:26,400
because

1246
00:48:30,050 --> 00:48:28,319
I think that's a really important

1247
00:48:31,069 --> 00:48:30,060
question to ask and for the people

1248
00:48:33,290 --> 00:48:31,079
who've

1249
00:48:34,490 --> 00:48:33,300
been at this longer than we have you

1250
00:48:36,410 --> 00:48:34,500
know even at the

1251
00:48:39,170 --> 00:48:36,420
rice conference I ran into people who've

1252
00:48:40,670 --> 00:48:39,180
been at this for decades and have been

1253
00:48:42,410 --> 00:48:40,680
so

1254
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:42,420
conditioned into believing there will

1255
00:48:46,670 --> 00:48:45,359
never be disclosure day that even now

1256
00:48:48,410 --> 00:48:46,680
they can't see the writing on the wall

1257
00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:48,420
when it's very clear that something is

1258
00:48:55,609 --> 00:48:50,880
is imminent something is really shifting

1259
00:48:59,329 --> 00:48:57,230
. yeah a really interesting question is

1260
00:49:01,130 --> 00:48:59,339
is why now

1261
00:49:03,530 --> 00:49:01,140
and if it is

1262
00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:03,540
to some degree because the others are

1263
00:49:09,650 --> 00:49:05,640
forcing the hand or saying now is the

1264
00:49:11,870 --> 00:49:09,660
time then that in itself points to the

1265
00:49:14,510 --> 00:49:11,880
power situation here right the power

1266
00:49:16,730 --> 00:49:14,520
dynamics the sense that

1267
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:16,740
seemingly these others whenever they

1268
00:49:25,010 --> 00:49:19,920
want to can force the hand which of

1269
00:49:27,349 --> 00:49:25,020
course also raises the notion that

1270
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:27,359
has the lack of disclosure up until now

1271
00:49:32,569 --> 00:49:30,420
been partly at the hands of these others

1272
00:49:33,710 --> 00:49:32,579
and I would suggest it has been I think

1273
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:33,720
that

1274
00:49:43,490 --> 00:49:41,280
doesn't happen without the others having

1275
00:49:45,170 --> 00:49:43,500
a say in that so I want people to think

1276
00:49:47,390 --> 00:49:45,180
along and hard about that because the

1277
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:47,400
fact that it's happening now would not

1278
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:50,160
be happening unless the others again I'm

1279
00:49:54,410 --> 00:49:51,599
not trying to make it one monolithic

1280
00:49:55,849 --> 00:49:54,420
thing but a certain group of the others

1281
00:49:56,990 --> 00:49:55,859
that have been very active in our

1282
00:49:59,210 --> 00:49:57,000
civilization

1283
00:50:01,970 --> 00:49:59,220
and have even You could argue

1284
00:50:03,230 --> 00:50:01,980
infiltrated and influenced at best let's

1285
00:50:05,690 --> 00:50:03,240
use that word

1286
00:50:08,210 --> 00:50:05,700
elements of our military

1287
00:50:11,150 --> 00:50:08,220
they they've had a say in this

1288
00:50:12,650 --> 00:50:11,160
and I think when people ask why have

1289
00:50:14,809 --> 00:50:12,660
they not landed on the White House lawn

1290
00:50:16,910 --> 00:50:14,819
why have they not made some sort of

1291
00:50:18,170 --> 00:50:16,920
Public Announcement themselves and to

1292
00:50:21,349 --> 00:50:18,180
some people that looks immediately

1293
00:50:23,870 --> 00:50:21,359
suspicious and speaks to nefarious

1294
00:50:26,930 --> 00:50:23,880
intentions I would really caution people

1295
00:50:28,609 --> 00:50:26,940
to not go there I think that partly what

1296
00:50:30,730 --> 00:50:28,619
this involves is an intelligence that's

1297
00:50:33,050 --> 00:50:30,740
very different than us that

1298
00:50:35,210 --> 00:50:33,060
responds very differently that acts very

1299
00:50:36,770 --> 00:50:35,220
differently that thinks much more

1300
00:50:40,250 --> 00:50:36,780
quickly I'm saying this partly from

1301
00:50:41,870 --> 00:50:40,260
personal experience that the kind of

1302
00:50:43,609 --> 00:50:41,880
information that's provided is sometimes

1303
00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:43,619
extremely overwhelming because it's

1304
00:50:49,309 --> 00:50:46,319
multi-dimensional and

1305
00:50:53,690 --> 00:50:49,319
um just so loud because there's there's

1306
00:50:55,790 --> 00:50:53,700
so many uh Dimensions to it and it's

1307
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:55,800
I want to remind people that we're

1308
00:51:00,349 --> 00:50:58,559
talking about a different intelligence

1309
00:51:04,370 --> 00:51:00,359
one that's been around for a lot longer

1310
00:51:06,710 --> 00:51:04,380
than we have been and therefore simple

1311
00:51:09,290 --> 00:51:06,720
conversations are not quite what you

1312
00:51:11,569 --> 00:51:09,300
might think they are and so up until now

1313
00:51:14,030 --> 00:51:11,579
they've used intermediaries to to

1314
00:51:16,730 --> 00:51:14,040
communicate with our civilization

1315
00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:16,740
and even experiencers who've dealt with

1316
00:51:20,990 --> 00:51:19,020
them directly have this sense of it

1317
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:21,000
being very very overwhelming

1318
00:51:24,770 --> 00:51:22,559
and part of what you're trying to

1319
00:51:26,690 --> 00:51:24,780
wrestle with in terms of are they good

1320
00:51:28,910 --> 00:51:26,700
are they bad do they mean as well what

1321
00:51:30,890 --> 00:51:28,920
is their ultimate intention is so

1322
00:51:32,329 --> 00:51:30,900
difficult to initially to work through

1323
00:51:35,210 --> 00:51:32,339
because there's so much information

1324
00:51:37,790 --> 00:51:35,220
coming and also frankly because

1325
00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:37,800
sometimes we act like the frightened

1326
00:51:42,349 --> 00:51:39,900
animals I would suggest that people

1327
00:51:43,730 --> 00:51:42,359
imagine that you want to I had a friend

1328
00:51:45,890 --> 00:51:43,740
who actually described it this way and I

1329
00:51:48,410 --> 00:51:45,900
think it's a good analogy imagine that

1330
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:48,420
you have a wolf you have an intelligence

1331
00:51:54,049 --> 00:51:51,359
that's trying to befriend the wolf and

1332
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:54,059
help model the wolf and help lead the

1333
00:51:58,609 --> 00:51:56,640
wolf towards greater insight

1334
00:52:01,790 --> 00:51:58,619
but we know that wolves by definition

1335
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:01,800
are not trusting they're suspicious they

1336
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:03,119
wonder about are you a threat to the

1337
00:52:07,309 --> 00:52:05,280
pack all those kind of things they will

1338
00:52:09,290 --> 00:52:07,319
see anything that doesn't fit their

1339
00:52:11,150 --> 00:52:09,300
language internal language and culture

1340
00:52:13,490 --> 00:52:11,160
as

1341
00:52:17,390 --> 00:52:13,500
potentially threatening

1342
00:52:20,210 --> 00:52:17,400
to their existence now we are the wolves

1343
00:52:23,150 --> 00:52:20,220
the others are the are the intelligence

1344
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:23,160
trying to align with ultimately the

1345
00:52:26,930 --> 00:52:25,200
Wolves I would suggest to us here which

1346
00:52:28,670 --> 00:52:26,940
is not to say that all of them are good

1347
00:52:30,829 --> 00:52:28,680
in every single faction every single

1348
00:52:32,809 --> 00:52:30,839
element of otherness is always good I'm

1349
00:52:34,370 --> 00:52:32,819
not saying that but I do think partly

1350
00:52:37,130 --> 00:52:34,380
what this comes down to is we actually

1351
00:52:39,470 --> 00:52:37,140
are much more like The Primitives or the

1352
00:52:41,809 --> 00:52:39,480
Wolves the the wolf pack that in

1353
00:52:44,049 --> 00:52:41,819
inevitably looks at things as as

1354
00:52:46,970 --> 00:52:44,059
suspicious and potentially dangerous

1355
00:52:48,650 --> 00:52:46,980
that we don't understand and we do

1356
00:52:51,109 --> 00:52:48,660
respond with fight or flight that's our

1357
00:52:52,670 --> 00:52:51,119
evolutionary impulse almost every

1358
00:52:55,130 --> 00:52:52,680
experiencer will tell you that that was

1359
00:52:56,329 --> 00:52:55,140
their initial response because when

1360
00:52:57,770 --> 00:52:56,339
selling something that you don't

1361
00:53:00,470 --> 00:52:57,780
understand is at the foot of your bed

1362
00:53:02,390 --> 00:53:00,480
for instance you initially go this can't

1363
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:02,400
be good and you don't even have that

1364
00:53:06,530 --> 00:53:04,559
that much of a rational conversation you

1365
00:53:08,990 --> 00:53:06,540
don't even get there right you just your

1366
00:53:10,370 --> 00:53:09,000
autonomic responses go insane you have

1367
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:10,380
adrenaline flushing through your body

1368
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:12,720
because you're suddenly confronted with

1369
00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:14,880
this thing that should not be

1370
00:53:20,690 --> 00:53:18,000
to put a great Metallica song The Way

1371
00:53:23,450 --> 00:53:20,700
um so so these are these are things to

1372
00:53:25,790 --> 00:53:23,460
think about that this is not

1373
00:53:28,370 --> 00:53:25,800
Independence Day right this was not us

1374
00:53:30,530 --> 00:53:28,380
going to war with the aliens this is

1375
00:53:33,710 --> 00:53:30,540
also not I can try to think of another

1376
00:53:36,109 --> 00:53:33,720
example Star Trek or something where

1377
00:53:37,730 --> 00:53:36,119
and Enterprise lands and these Klingons

1378
00:53:38,690 --> 00:53:37,740
get off and they communicate with us and

1379
00:53:40,130 --> 00:53:38,700
they're kind of a little rougher on the

1380
00:53:41,930 --> 00:53:40,140
edges but mostly we have no problem

1381
00:53:44,210 --> 00:53:41,940
communicating it's much more complex

1382
00:53:46,970 --> 00:53:44,220
than that as well so

1383
00:53:48,349 --> 00:53:46,980
these are the questions that now were on

1384
00:53:51,230 --> 00:53:48,359
the cusp of asking though this is the

1385
00:53:53,809 --> 00:53:51,240
part even as I say this I'm I'm just

1386
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:53,819
struck by how civilization changing this

1387
00:53:58,250 --> 00:53:56,400
is because suddenly the conversation is

1388
00:53:59,870 --> 00:53:58,260
not about is there something up in this

1389
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:59,880
guy that we don't understand are those

1390
00:54:03,890 --> 00:54:01,200
objects are they intelligently

1391
00:54:06,170 --> 00:54:03,900
controlled yes to all the above now the

1392
00:54:07,549 --> 00:54:06,180
question is who are these others what

1393
00:54:10,849 --> 00:54:07,559
are they here for

1394
00:54:12,650 --> 00:54:10,859
how do we respond how do we move forward

1395
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:12,660
with that fundamentally changed

1396
00:54:15,130 --> 00:54:13,920
understanding of the nature of our

1397
00:54:17,930 --> 00:54:15,140
reality

1398
00:54:19,849 --> 00:54:17,940
well we don't even know the questions to

1399
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:19,859
ask right when you're dealing with

1400
00:54:26,030 --> 00:54:23,520
something that is this foreign to uh the

1401
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:26,040
way we look at the world uh in in in

1402
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:30,960
almost every respect uh we don't even

1403
00:54:34,849 --> 00:54:33,119
we can't begin to know which which are

1404
00:54:38,470 --> 00:54:34,859
the right questions to ask and I think

1405
00:54:41,210 --> 00:54:38,480
it is important that we

1406
00:54:44,809 --> 00:54:41,220
certainly bring our academic disciplines

1407
00:54:47,290 --> 00:54:44,819
to bear on trying to understand this but

1408
00:54:51,770 --> 00:54:47,300
as you and I have talked about before

1409
00:54:54,530 --> 00:54:51,780
Academia also has to come to a place of

1410
00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:54,540
change and radical transformation so

1411
00:54:59,569 --> 00:54:58,020
that they can be in a position to to

1412
00:55:02,089 --> 00:54:59,579
better understand this in other words

1413
00:55:04,849 --> 00:55:02,099
the traditional means of academic

1414
00:55:07,309 --> 00:55:04,859
inquiry aren't going to be sufficient

1415
00:55:09,109 --> 00:55:07,319
because they've clearly missed this the

1416
00:55:12,349 --> 00:55:09,119
entire time there's been a tremendous

1417
00:55:15,710 --> 00:55:12,359
blind spot uh in in our academic study

1418
00:55:16,910 --> 00:55:15,720
thus far so not you know you can

1419
00:55:19,549 --> 00:55:16,920
understand that there will be new

1420
00:55:22,370 --> 00:55:19,559
disciplines emerging that will be

1421
00:55:26,089 --> 00:55:22,380
looking at every facet of whatever this

1422
00:55:30,049 --> 00:55:26,099
may be but there will be areas of those

1423
00:55:33,710 --> 00:55:30,059
inquiry which will require entirely new

1424
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:33,720
ways of thinking uh and be willing to

1425
00:55:38,690 --> 00:55:36,720
look at the Paradigm that they were

1426
00:55:40,910 --> 00:55:38,700
trained under and say what is it about

1427
00:55:43,970 --> 00:55:40,920
this that isn't

1428
00:55:46,190 --> 00:55:43,980
fully operable in a way that helps us to

1429
00:55:48,290 --> 00:55:46,200
understand this thing that has been

1430
00:55:51,829 --> 00:55:48,300
right under our noses this entire time

1431
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:51,839
to quote uh Robert Bigelow it's been

1432
00:55:57,410 --> 00:55:54,240
right there the entire time and somehow

1433
00:56:00,109 --> 00:55:57,420
we have missed it and so it really could

1434
00:56:03,770 --> 00:56:00,119
lead to I'm again hopeful I'm an

1435
00:56:07,490 --> 00:56:03,780
optimist a tremendous Renaissance

1436
00:56:10,130 --> 00:56:07,500
uh for uh you know humanity and so many

1437
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:10,140
different facets but I I can't help but

1438
00:56:14,809 --> 00:56:12,240
think that there will be some some very

1439
00:56:16,910 --> 00:56:14,819
real Growing Pains here

1440
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:16,920
um and and do we have enough time you

1441
00:56:24,650 --> 00:56:20,400
know can we get our act together uh fast

1442
00:56:27,650 --> 00:56:24,660
enough uh to to respond to this in a way

1443
00:56:30,650 --> 00:56:27,660
that uh that gets through the I think

1444
00:56:34,309 --> 00:56:30,660
the knee-jerk initial shock uh and

1445
00:56:36,650 --> 00:56:34,319
probably some degree of violence uh that

1446
00:56:40,190 --> 00:56:36,660
you might expect can we get past that

1447
00:56:42,950 --> 00:56:40,200
and then into that new future where the

1448
00:56:46,190 --> 00:56:42,960
possibility space is tremendously Broad

1449
00:56:48,530 --> 00:56:46,200
and amazing we have a lot of problems

1450
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:48,540
that need solving

1451
00:56:51,710 --> 00:56:50,880
um climate uh certainly being one of

1452
00:56:54,109 --> 00:56:51,720
them

1453
00:56:57,650 --> 00:56:54,119
you know but we have tremendous

1454
00:57:00,650 --> 00:56:57,660
inequality in the world uh we have uh of

1455
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,660
course Health being a huge issue as well

1456
00:57:06,290 --> 00:57:02,400
you can only imagine how many

1457
00:57:08,569 --> 00:57:06,300
individuals will be lining up to say you

1458
00:57:12,530 --> 00:57:08,579
know what can they teach us about how to

1459
00:57:15,890 --> 00:57:12,540
heal XYZ conditions uh you know what

1460
00:57:18,290 --> 00:57:15,900
about uh you know Interstellar travel

1461
00:57:22,250 --> 00:57:18,300
all these questions that will be brought

1462
00:57:23,870 --> 00:57:22,260
to bear uh you know almost take a number

1463
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:23,880
and it's going to take forever to get

1464
00:57:28,490 --> 00:57:26,640
through all of this uh you know line of

1465
00:57:30,410 --> 00:57:28,500
inquiry and do we have the time for that

1466
00:57:34,010 --> 00:57:30,420
I I don't know

1467
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:34,020
um how does it change uh the way that we

1468
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:35,760
relate to

1469
00:57:39,770 --> 00:57:37,920
uh our children you know knowing that

1470
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:39,780
we've got our children growing up in a

1471
00:57:47,150 --> 00:57:42,960
world like this and uh what what future

1472
00:57:48,650 --> 00:57:47,160
is there for them in this uh new reality

1473
00:57:50,750 --> 00:57:48,660
it certainly doesn't look like what it

1474
00:57:53,210 --> 00:57:50,760
looks like today

1475
00:57:56,690 --> 00:57:53,220
um and how do we navigate that

1476
00:58:00,950 --> 00:57:56,700
um so many questions merge really when

1477
00:58:02,750 --> 00:58:00,960
you introduce this new Factor uh and

1478
00:58:04,670 --> 00:58:02,760
even questions about our human history

1479
00:58:06,290 --> 00:58:04,680
right so if this intelligence has been

1480
00:58:09,470 --> 00:58:06,300
around as you and I have talked about

1481
00:58:11,809 --> 00:58:09,480
before for so long uh what questions

1482
00:58:14,930 --> 00:58:11,819
might we ask it about who we are and

1483
00:58:18,890 --> 00:58:14,940
where we came from and what our role and

1484
00:58:20,750 --> 00:58:18,900
connection is to them uh talk about

1485
00:58:22,970 --> 00:58:20,760
rewriting the history books I mean you

1486
00:58:25,010 --> 00:58:22,980
might as well throw them away because

1487
00:58:28,010 --> 00:58:25,020
they will be entirely different in the

1488
00:58:31,549 --> 00:58:28,020
wake of such an announcement

1489
00:58:33,710 --> 00:58:31,559
indeed in each each of the bullet points

1490
00:58:35,210 --> 00:58:33,720
you discussed there could be an entire

1491
00:58:37,370 --> 00:58:35,220
episode on its own

1492
00:58:38,450 --> 00:58:37,380
there are so many rabbit holes that

1493
00:58:40,609 --> 00:58:38,460
emerge

1494
00:58:42,410 --> 00:58:40,619
to chase down when you think about these

1495
00:58:44,690 --> 00:58:42,420
implications

1496
00:58:46,370 --> 00:58:44,700
one thing I would say in terms of your

1497
00:58:47,930 --> 00:58:46,380
sense of wanting to be hopeful wanting

1498
00:58:51,170 --> 00:58:47,940
to be optimistic

1499
00:58:54,410 --> 00:58:51,180
I think undoubtedly this revelation will

1500
00:58:57,049 --> 00:58:54,420
be better than not having it because the

1501
00:58:59,690 --> 00:58:57,059
fact that the trajectory we're on is not

1502
00:59:05,569 --> 00:58:59,700
sustainable and we seem to be just not

1503
00:59:09,710 --> 00:59:07,430
even when

1504
00:59:12,109 --> 00:59:09,720
every day we're confronted with data

1505
00:59:13,190 --> 00:59:12,119
that suggests that the biosphere is in

1506
00:59:16,370 --> 00:59:13,200
trouble

1507
00:59:18,589 --> 00:59:16,380
we just bury our heads in the sand and

1508
00:59:21,470 --> 00:59:18,599
hope that it goes away I'm reminded of

1509
00:59:23,450 --> 00:59:21,480
when I was 20 years old and I drove a

1510
00:59:25,490 --> 00:59:23,460
Volkswagen around when I started making

1511
00:59:27,530 --> 00:59:25,500
a sound I just tried to ignore it I just

1512
00:59:29,210 --> 00:59:27,540
hope that it would like just go away

1513
00:59:31,970 --> 00:59:29,220
turns out that never worked that well

1514
00:59:33,410 --> 00:59:31,980
for me it didn't happen that way it just

1515
00:59:34,910 --> 00:59:33,420
actually got worse and sometimes I'd

1516
00:59:36,289 --> 00:59:34,920
find out after the fact you know if you

1517
00:59:37,849 --> 00:59:36,299
would have dealt with this a month ago

1518
00:59:39,289 --> 00:59:37,859
it would have been fine but now now

1519
00:59:40,849 --> 00:59:39,299
you've you know you've cracked the

1520
00:59:43,309 --> 00:59:40,859
transmission or something and so now you

1521
00:59:45,349 --> 00:59:43,319
have to replace the whole engine

1522
00:59:47,089 --> 00:59:45,359
that's kind of the equivalent to what

1523
00:59:48,650 --> 00:59:47,099
we're experiencing as a civilization we

1524
00:59:50,870 --> 00:59:48,660
keep getting these warning signs we've

1525
00:59:53,030 --> 00:59:50,880
got scientists trying to shove from the

1526
00:59:54,770 --> 00:59:53,040
rooftops waving their arms you know the

1527
00:59:56,809 --> 00:59:54,780
data is not good

1528
00:59:59,870 --> 00:59:56,819
all of our for instance models around

1529
01:00:02,950 --> 00:59:59,880
climate change every time a model is is

1530
01:00:05,450 --> 01:00:02,960
put forward we seem to eclipse the model

1531
01:00:07,970 --> 01:00:05,460
sooner and in more drastic ways than we

1532
01:00:10,670 --> 01:00:07,980
were expecting

1533
01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:10,680
again I mentioned last time I think that

1534
01:00:13,910 --> 01:00:12,000
you know there was a recent announcement

1535
01:00:16,130 --> 01:00:13,920
how ocean temperatures were higher now

1536
01:00:17,569 --> 01:00:16,140
than they've ever been on record

1537
01:00:19,789 --> 01:00:17,579
now I want to say a couple things to the

1538
01:00:21,470 --> 01:00:19,799
Skeptics here because I understand that

1539
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:21,480
historically we sometimes make mistakes

1540
01:00:25,970 --> 01:00:24,480
we sometimes get things wrong when you

1541
01:00:27,530 --> 01:00:25,980
and I were in high school I remember

1542
01:00:29,150 --> 01:00:27,540
there being discussion about the

1543
01:00:32,990 --> 01:00:29,160
possibility of a new Ice Age at some

1544
01:00:35,630 --> 01:00:33,000
point and was that ever wrong right or

1545
01:00:37,309 --> 01:00:35,640
the sense that population explosion

1546
01:00:39,490 --> 01:00:37,319
would eventually be our demise whereas

1547
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:39,500
now we see in the first world anyway

1548
01:00:43,309 --> 01:00:41,520
actually we're not even at replacement

1549
01:00:45,890 --> 01:00:43,319
levels that eventually basically when

1550
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:45,900
you have health care and basic needs

1551
01:00:49,370 --> 01:00:47,760
being met people voluntarily choose to

1552
01:00:50,930 --> 01:00:49,380
have fewer children and we have every

1553
01:00:52,970 --> 01:00:50,940
expectation that if we could raise

1554
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:52,980
living standards around the world that

1555
01:00:59,089 --> 01:00:55,440
that problem would take care of itself

1556
01:01:02,150 --> 01:00:59,099
but we should not be fooled by a couple

1557
01:01:05,210 --> 01:01:02,160
examples of where the scare mongering

1558
01:01:08,030 --> 01:01:05,220
turned out to be false because that sets

1559
01:01:10,190 --> 01:01:08,040
you up for a massive shock to the system

1560
01:01:11,690 --> 01:01:10,200
when you realize well it turns out all

1561
01:01:13,490 --> 01:01:11,700
these warning signs were just that

1562
01:01:15,410 --> 01:01:13,500
warning signs red flags that we did not

1563
01:01:16,490 --> 01:01:15,420
pay attention to to the part where it's

1564
01:01:17,809 --> 01:01:16,500
too late

1565
01:01:19,309 --> 01:01:17,819
so

1566
01:01:20,870 --> 01:01:19,319
and we didn't even discuss all the

1567
01:01:24,530 --> 01:01:20,880
possibilities we've we've talked before

1568
01:01:28,130 --> 01:01:24,540
about AI again because of our

1569
01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:28,140
our market-based capitalistic system we

1570
01:01:31,730 --> 01:01:30,240
don't have the kind of tribal mentality

1571
01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:31,740
where we sit around a campfire

1572
01:01:36,770 --> 01:01:35,040
collectively use that as a metaphor and

1573
01:01:38,750 --> 01:01:36,780
talk about what's in the best interest

1574
01:01:41,870 --> 01:01:38,760
of the tribe we don't do that

1575
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:41,880
the market-driven capitalist me first

1576
01:01:47,089 --> 01:01:44,400
greed driven system says you'll get

1577
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:47,099
different groups will chase down how to

1578
01:01:52,910 --> 01:01:49,440
have the most advanced AI

1579
01:01:55,130 --> 01:01:52,920
because first a market gives you massive

1580
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:55,140
advantages here more than any other kind

1581
01:01:59,770 --> 01:01:56,720
of technological innovation in history

1582
01:02:01,670 --> 01:01:59,780
so we are not giving any kind of

1583
01:02:04,130 --> 01:02:01,680
society-wide consideration to the

1584
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:04,140
implications of AI

1585
01:02:10,010 --> 01:02:08,400
not good you've also got things like bio

1586
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:10,020
weapons we just went through a pandemic

1587
01:02:13,130 --> 01:02:11,520
there's many many questions about even

1588
01:02:14,450 --> 01:02:13,140
the nature and the origin and the

1589
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:14,460
ultimate

1590
01:02:19,250 --> 01:02:17,280
perhaps nefarious aspects of that

1591
01:02:20,990 --> 01:02:19,260
pandemic that shows you how little trust

1592
01:02:23,030 --> 01:02:21,000
there is in this system and the way we

1593
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:23,040
gather information and how censorship

1594
01:02:28,370 --> 01:02:26,400
happens some very valid concerns

1595
01:02:32,270 --> 01:02:28,380
so again all of this points to the fact

1596
01:02:34,130 --> 01:02:32,280
that we are in Dire Straits we need

1597
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:34,140
something we need a shock to the system

1598
01:02:37,609 --> 01:02:36,240
we need the equivalent of the paddles on

1599
01:02:39,650 --> 01:02:37,619
the person who's had the heart attack to

1600
01:02:41,210 --> 01:02:39,660
bring them back to life we were like the

1601
01:02:42,410 --> 01:02:41,220
dying patient who doesn't even realize

1602
01:02:46,730 --> 01:02:42,420
he's dying

1603
01:02:48,650 --> 01:02:46,740
so that sounds pretty drastic but I

1604
01:02:51,289 --> 01:02:48,660
really think that's where we're at and

1605
01:02:53,089 --> 01:02:51,299
again the messages from the others

1606
01:02:55,789 --> 01:02:53,099
consistently has been the case that was

1607
01:02:58,970 --> 01:02:55,799
the messages back in the 90s when John

1608
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:58,980
Mack was interviewing and speaking with

1609
01:03:02,690 --> 01:03:00,720
and interacting with these experiences

1610
01:03:04,849 --> 01:03:02,700
that were having these experiences

1611
01:03:06,349 --> 01:03:04,859
things are much worse now than they were

1612
01:03:08,750 --> 01:03:06,359
then and already then it looked pretty

1613
01:03:10,609 --> 01:03:08,760
dire so again I would suggest to people

1614
01:03:13,010 --> 01:03:10,619
that all of this this Brewing perfect

1615
01:03:14,690 --> 01:03:13,020
storm is for a reason and if ever

1616
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:14,700
there's a time to wake up it's now

1617
01:03:19,370 --> 01:03:16,559
because we don't have that many more

1618
01:03:21,410 --> 01:03:19,380
opportunities to do so this may be our

1619
01:03:24,109 --> 01:03:21,420
last opportunity to do so

1620
01:03:26,210 --> 01:03:24,119
and again to speak into your thing about

1621
01:03:28,010 --> 01:03:26,220
optimism I think we should be optimistic

1622
01:03:29,569 --> 01:03:28,020
because we know something must change

1623
01:03:31,670 --> 01:03:29,579
and if there's anything that's going to

1624
01:03:33,410 --> 01:03:31,680
give us the impetus to change perhaps

1625
01:03:36,530 --> 01:03:33,420
this is it

1626
01:03:39,170 --> 01:03:36,540
I I'm yeah I am optimistic and I think

1627
01:03:42,049 --> 01:03:39,180
that uh in part because the people that

1628
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,059
I talk to and of course I'm I'm the

1629
01:03:46,789 --> 01:03:44,640
small sample size here right so it who

1630
01:03:48,770 --> 01:03:46,799
knows how indicative it is of of the

1631
01:03:52,010 --> 01:03:48,780
larger population but I have this

1632
01:03:54,770 --> 01:03:52,020
feeling this intuition that that most

1633
01:03:56,750 --> 01:03:54,780
people of the world recognize that that

1634
01:03:59,030 --> 01:03:56,760
the way the world is we're operating

1635
01:04:02,450 --> 01:03:59,040
right now is not sustainable it's not

1636
01:04:06,410 --> 01:04:02,460
going to work the problem is that we we

1637
01:04:09,470 --> 01:04:06,420
are all in a way held captive to it uh

1638
01:04:12,890 --> 01:04:09,480
we find ourselves just to be you know a

1639
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:12,900
bit player in this larger uh drama and

1640
01:04:17,450 --> 01:04:14,880
we're looking at the script or watching

1641
01:04:19,010 --> 01:04:17,460
the main uh you know actors kind of move

1642
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:19,020
the plot forward and we're going I don't

1643
01:04:22,490 --> 01:04:20,880
know that I want to be if this plot

1644
01:04:24,650 --> 01:04:22,500
keeps going I think I'm gonna be one of

1645
01:04:27,650 --> 01:04:24,660
those characters that gets killed off in

1646
01:04:30,190 --> 01:04:27,660
this in this movie uh and so you know I

1647
01:04:34,130 --> 01:04:30,200
think in some respects we would welcome

1648
01:04:36,650 --> 01:04:34,140
this type of tectonic shift and we do

1649
01:04:38,450 --> 01:04:36,660
kind of joke about it even at times uh

1650
01:04:39,890 --> 01:04:38,460
you know oh it's what are you going to

1651
01:04:41,390 --> 01:04:39,900
tell me now that there are aliens you

1652
01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:41,400
know thank goodness you know I'm glad

1653
01:04:45,049 --> 01:04:42,720
that I'm glad they're finally here maybe

1654
01:04:46,970 --> 01:04:45,059
they can sort this out because you know

1655
01:04:49,490 --> 01:04:46,980
the system that that we find ourselves

1656
01:04:52,690 --> 01:04:49,500
in just feels like it's a total mess and

1657
01:04:55,549 --> 01:04:52,700
we feel powerless our individual agency

1658
01:04:58,089 --> 01:04:55,559
at that little small level in our

1659
01:05:01,670 --> 01:04:58,099
societies it doesn't feel strong enough

1660
01:05:03,470 --> 01:05:01,680
to move the needle uh and perhaps this

1661
01:05:06,049 --> 01:05:03,480
will

1662
01:05:09,890 --> 01:05:06,059
um or at least it'll it'll Galvanize us

1663
01:05:12,490 --> 01:05:09,900
to exercise our Collective will uh to to

1664
01:05:15,589 --> 01:05:12,500
move Society in in a better Direction

1665
01:05:18,950 --> 01:05:15,599
but there's so much work to be done I I

1666
01:05:21,710 --> 01:05:18,960
don't even know uh

1667
01:05:24,170 --> 01:05:21,720
where we would begin right I would hope

1668
01:05:26,390 --> 01:05:24,180
that we could begin by solving some of

1669
01:05:28,910 --> 01:05:26,400
the the big challenges that we have but

1670
01:05:31,609 --> 01:05:28,920
uh Chief among them would be putting

1671
01:05:34,250 --> 01:05:31,619
down these weapons that could annihilate

1672
01:05:37,549 --> 01:05:34,260
us all uh that we could stop killing

1673
01:05:39,470 --> 01:05:37,559
each other literally uh killing you know

1674
01:05:42,829 --> 01:05:39,480
those of us who are in the same species

1675
01:05:46,849 --> 01:05:42,839
uh on the planet every day in the name

1676
01:05:49,250 --> 01:05:46,859
of you know some crazy ideology you know

1677
01:05:52,370 --> 01:05:49,260
it just doesn't make sense can we can we

1678
01:05:55,490 --> 01:05:52,380
wake up from that kind of uh irrational

1679
01:05:57,770 --> 01:05:55,500
type of behavior I don't know

1680
01:05:59,930 --> 01:05:57,780
um and then I'm also you know curious

1681
01:06:04,069 --> 01:05:59,940
what your take is as we've talked about

1682
01:06:05,870 --> 01:06:04,079
this before on the degree to which there

1683
01:06:07,370 --> 01:06:05,880
might be some others that don't want

1684
01:06:11,270 --> 01:06:07,380
this to happen

1685
01:06:14,089 --> 01:06:11,280
um you know and certainly uh we're

1686
01:06:16,130 --> 01:06:14,099
full-on and speculation land here we'll

1687
01:06:19,309 --> 01:06:16,140
readily admit that

1688
01:06:22,069 --> 01:06:19,319
um but we we know that not every

1689
01:06:24,109 --> 01:06:22,079
non-human intelligence uh you know

1690
01:06:26,990 --> 01:06:24,119
certainly has the the best interest of

1691
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:27,000
humanity at heart uh and I doubt that

1692
01:06:31,549 --> 01:06:29,039
they're going to say well okay I guess

1693
01:06:32,450 --> 01:06:31,559
we we gave it a good go and we're just

1694
01:06:35,329 --> 01:06:32,460
not gonna

1695
01:06:38,089 --> 01:06:35,339
push back any longer and we know that

1696
01:06:40,190 --> 01:06:38,099
they've persuaded of course some in the

1697
01:06:41,990 --> 01:06:40,200
Human family to to sort of see things

1698
01:06:44,210 --> 01:06:42,000
from their perspective as well or

1699
01:06:46,609 --> 01:06:44,220
Bargains may have been made between

1700
01:06:48,890 --> 01:06:46,619
certain human groups and these other

1701
01:06:51,710 --> 01:06:48,900
groups that don't want this kind of

1702
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:51,720
disclosure to take place

1703
01:06:57,470 --> 01:06:54,480
um so it doesn't seem like it's going to

1704
01:06:59,630 --> 01:06:57,480
be perfect or Smooth by any means do you

1705
01:07:02,089 --> 01:06:59,640
see some friction there potentially in

1706
01:07:04,670 --> 01:07:02,099
in the others themselves and how this

1707
01:07:06,289 --> 01:07:04,680
might proceed

1708
01:07:07,789 --> 01:07:06,299
yeah that's a fascinating question and

1709
01:07:10,069 --> 01:07:07,799
again that's the elephant in the room

1710
01:07:12,109 --> 01:07:10,079
that people sometimes forget to

1711
01:07:13,609 --> 01:07:12,119
think about

1712
01:07:15,710 --> 01:07:13,619
I think one thing I would lean on here

1713
01:07:18,109 --> 01:07:15,720
is this sense as I've said before on

1714
01:07:20,650 --> 01:07:18,119
this podcast and on point of convergence

1715
01:07:22,670 --> 01:07:20,660
that my sense again according to

1716
01:07:25,010 --> 01:07:22,680
developmental levels

1717
01:07:27,950 --> 01:07:25,020
and how that rolls out and again I want

1718
01:07:29,930 --> 01:07:27,960
to remind people here that

1719
01:07:32,270 --> 01:07:29,940
not only

1720
01:07:34,069 --> 01:07:32,280
from an idealistic perspective and from

1721
01:07:36,109 --> 01:07:34,079
the teachings of

1722
01:07:38,630 --> 01:07:36,119
our most ancient spiritual Traditions

1723
01:07:41,210 --> 01:07:38,640
speaking about us all having a common

1724
01:07:43,309 --> 01:07:41,220
source not just us but potentially every

1725
01:07:45,170 --> 01:07:43,319
sentient being in the universe

1726
01:07:47,089 --> 01:07:45,180
not only is that I think actually

1727
01:07:49,309 --> 01:07:47,099
indicative of underlying reality and we

1728
01:07:51,410 --> 01:07:49,319
should keep that in mind here I think

1729
01:07:52,910 --> 01:07:51,420
ultimately there's exactly one

1730
01:07:54,589 --> 01:07:52,920
Consciousness in the universe and we're

1731
01:07:56,270 --> 01:07:54,599
like different fractal impressions of

1732
01:07:58,670 --> 01:07:56,280
that different facets of a diamond if

1733
01:08:00,650 --> 01:07:58,680
you will including them including us

1734
01:08:02,870 --> 01:08:00,660
but in addition to that

1735
01:08:05,150 --> 01:08:02,880
there is a lot of evidence that they are

1736
01:08:08,630 --> 01:08:05,160
somehow even more directly connected to

1737
01:08:12,109 --> 01:08:08,640
us than that that there's a DNA Link

1738
01:08:14,329 --> 01:08:12,119
Between Us and Them many of them anyway

1739
01:08:17,150 --> 01:08:14,339
we've talked before about why do we keep

1740
01:08:18,289 --> 01:08:17,160
seeing this dominant humanoid shape that

1741
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:18,299
looks like

1742
01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:20,400
different versions of beings that

1743
01:08:23,870 --> 01:08:21,839
already exist on the Earth

1744
01:08:26,090 --> 01:08:23,880
that raises questions about time travel

1745
01:08:27,890 --> 01:08:26,100
are these extra Tempest rules as Mike

1746
01:08:29,930 --> 01:08:27,900
Masters would suggest

1747
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:29,940
is time and fall but perhaps in a way

1748
01:08:34,610 --> 01:08:31,920
that eclipses our current way of being

1749
01:08:37,550 --> 01:08:34,620
able to think about it these are all

1750
01:08:40,010 --> 01:08:37,560
matters on the table right now physics

1751
01:08:42,470 --> 01:08:40,020
is really wondering what is time what is

1752
01:08:44,090 --> 01:08:42,480
space time these are these are questions

1753
01:08:46,430 --> 01:08:44,100
that are debated and there's different

1754
01:08:48,169 --> 01:08:46,440
perspectives and this phenomenon gives

1755
01:08:50,150 --> 01:08:48,179
us a chance to have more data to think

1756
01:08:53,209 --> 01:08:50,160
about that

1757
01:08:55,430 --> 01:08:53,219
but I think in the midst of all that yes

1758
01:08:57,829 --> 01:08:55,440
it's it's important to think about how

1759
01:09:00,349 --> 01:08:57,839
these different others might jockey for

1760
01:09:02,630 --> 01:09:00,359
position in the midst of this change in

1761
01:09:04,189 --> 01:09:02,640
our civilization's understanding but

1762
01:09:05,809 --> 01:09:04,199
what I lean on here as well is not just

1763
01:09:07,249 --> 01:09:05,819
that we are connected to them in some

1764
01:09:08,630 --> 01:09:07,259
way which alone doesn't guarantee

1765
01:09:10,490 --> 01:09:08,640
anything because we go to war with each

1766
01:09:11,689 --> 01:09:10,500
other all the time even though we you

1767
01:09:13,550 --> 01:09:11,699
know all have the same ancestors

1768
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:13,560
ultimately

1769
01:09:18,349 --> 01:09:16,319
but I think my understanding is that

1770
01:09:19,849 --> 01:09:18,359
because of Developmental Consciousness

1771
01:09:21,530 --> 01:09:19,859
and how that rolls out in spiral

1772
01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:21,540
Dynamics and whatnot

1773
01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:24,960
the ones that are at the most

1774
01:09:28,849 --> 01:09:27,600
high levels the ones that are the most

1775
01:09:31,010 --> 01:09:28,859
ascendant in terms of their

1776
01:09:32,990 --> 01:09:31,020
understanding not just of technology and

1777
01:09:35,150 --> 01:09:33,000
reality but of consciousness of

1778
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:35,160
fundamental Consciousness we've talked

1779
01:09:38,510 --> 01:09:36,480
many times about

1780
01:09:40,550 --> 01:09:38,520
Consciousness seemingly being the the

1781
01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:40,560
substrate of all that is so they have a

1782
01:09:46,189 --> 01:09:43,440
they have a very intimate grasp of that

1783
01:09:48,650 --> 01:09:46,199
and a broad grasp of that and because of

1784
01:09:51,410 --> 01:09:48,660
that they see us as the kind of

1785
01:09:52,970 --> 01:09:51,420
kindergarten class and when the sixth

1786
01:09:54,709 --> 01:09:52,980
graders want to beat up on the

1787
01:09:55,970 --> 01:09:54,719
kindergarten class you know the 12th

1788
01:09:57,530 --> 01:09:55,980
graders have something to say about that

1789
01:09:59,330 --> 01:09:57,540
they tend to step in

1790
01:10:01,729 --> 01:09:59,340
so again I think the fact that we have

1791
01:10:05,030 --> 01:10:01,739
not seen our civilization our planet

1792
01:10:06,590 --> 01:10:05,040
overrun by a malevolent alien species

1793
01:10:08,990 --> 01:10:06,600
already speaks to the fact there's some

1794
01:10:10,850 --> 01:10:09,000
kind of shielding around our planet that

1795
01:10:13,310 --> 01:10:10,860
there is this sense of let's Let The

1796
01:10:15,169 --> 01:10:13,320
Kindergartners figure out their business

1797
01:10:17,570 --> 01:10:15,179
and eventually introduce them to the

1798
01:10:19,850 --> 01:10:17,580
larger Cosmic Community I think that's

1799
01:10:22,010 --> 01:10:19,860
partly what's in play here

1800
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:22,020
and these were interesting questions

1801
01:10:25,790 --> 01:10:23,520
though and this will be part of the

1802
01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:25,800
dynamic so people will say to you

1803
01:10:29,450 --> 01:10:27,840
wait a second not only are there aliens

1804
01:10:31,370 --> 01:10:29,460
but there's different factions of aliens

1805
01:10:33,229 --> 01:10:31,380
and different origin sources how how do

1806
01:10:34,729 --> 01:10:33,239
I make sense of this you're telling me

1807
01:10:36,950 --> 01:10:34,739
that some of them might be beyond space

1808
01:10:38,510 --> 01:10:36,960
time some of them may be more energetic

1809
01:10:40,490 --> 01:10:38,520
in nature what does that mean does that

1810
01:10:41,810 --> 01:10:40,500
mean demons does this mean angels I was

1811
01:10:43,669 --> 01:10:41,820
not taught about this I don't remember

1812
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:43,679
having this elective offered to me in

1813
01:10:47,630 --> 01:10:45,840
high school right these are the kinds of

1814
01:10:49,189 --> 01:10:47,640
questions that are on the table and

1815
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:49,199
again it just really

1816
01:10:52,729 --> 01:10:50,880
is mind-boggling when you think about

1817
01:10:55,149 --> 01:10:52,739
the nature of the conversations that are

1818
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:55,159
coming sooner than later

1819
01:11:02,870 --> 01:10:58,560
right what you said there makes me think

1820
01:11:06,350 --> 01:11:02,880
about the way uh understanding might be

1821
01:11:09,970 --> 01:11:06,360
gated in this unfolding because there is

1822
01:11:12,590 --> 01:11:09,980
a sense in which there are

1823
01:11:14,810 --> 01:11:12,600
uh and we we have touched on this to

1824
01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:14,820
some degree there are acceptable Notions

1825
01:11:20,750 --> 01:11:17,520
of non-human intelligence or acceptable

1826
01:11:22,669 --> 01:11:20,760
uh ways in which it it it it it can

1827
01:11:25,130 --> 01:11:22,679
behave or or the ways it may have

1828
01:11:27,970 --> 01:11:25,140
interacted with with us and and then

1829
01:11:31,729 --> 01:11:27,980
there are uh there are further sort of

1830
01:11:33,110 --> 01:11:31,739
rings outside of that ring that if

1831
01:11:35,510 --> 01:11:33,120
you've been in this topic long enough

1832
01:11:37,070 --> 01:11:35,520
you you know what that territory looks

1833
01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:37,080
like but I don't think we're going to be

1834
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:38,880
able to get to the outer ring

1835
01:11:43,010 --> 01:11:40,320
immediately we're going to have to go

1836
01:11:46,130 --> 01:11:43,020
through this sort of process of

1837
01:11:49,070 --> 01:11:46,140
assessment and discernment and

1838
01:11:51,950 --> 01:11:49,080
acceptance in a way that that there are

1839
01:11:55,910 --> 01:11:51,960
these sort of wider possibilities that

1840
01:11:56,570 --> 01:11:55,920
we may initially be willing to entertain

1841
01:11:58,130 --> 01:11:56,580
um

1842
01:12:01,850 --> 01:11:58,140
I don't know that we're going to be able

1843
01:12:05,649 --> 01:12:01,860
to jump to interdimensional or uh you

1844
01:12:09,470 --> 01:12:05,659
know extraterrestrial or in a sort of uh

1845
01:12:12,610 --> 01:12:09,480
ascendant uh light beings you know on on

1846
01:12:15,290 --> 01:12:12,620
day one you know with this kind of uh uh

1847
01:12:17,870 --> 01:12:15,300
revelatory knowledge so you know how do

1848
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:17,880
you see that transpiring do you think

1849
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:22,260
that it's going to uh be a kind of an

1850
01:12:28,729 --> 01:12:25,440
organic process of discovery that it

1851
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:28,739
will it will be uh you know will it will

1852
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:31,199
it unfold over several you know years

1853
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:33,360
perhaps I mean how long will it take us

1854
01:12:38,330 --> 01:12:35,760
to really kind of get our arms around

1855
01:12:40,669 --> 01:12:38,340
the true nature of the situation to the

1856
01:12:43,970 --> 01:12:40,679
extent that we even can really fully

1857
01:12:46,550 --> 01:12:43,980
grasp the uh the great complexity of of

1858
01:12:48,530 --> 01:12:46,560
the entire picture there

1859
01:12:49,970 --> 01:12:48,540
yeah great questions and I think it is

1860
01:12:51,890 --> 01:12:49,980
important for us

1861
01:12:54,290 --> 01:12:51,900
familiar with this topic to remember

1862
01:12:57,229 --> 01:12:54,300
that we didn't get here overnight that

1863
01:13:00,470 --> 01:12:57,239
we may have very nuanced sophisticated

1864
01:13:02,930 --> 01:13:00,480
Notions of it now or able to

1865
01:13:05,030 --> 01:13:02,940
hold in our minds very apparently

1866
01:13:06,649 --> 01:13:05,040
disparate data that sometimes seems to

1867
01:13:08,689 --> 01:13:06,659
contradict itself

1868
01:13:09,890 --> 01:13:08,699
right and we try to make sense of that

1869
01:13:14,630 --> 01:13:09,900
and and

1870
01:13:16,910 --> 01:13:14,640
form patterns from that data but people

1871
01:13:18,590 --> 01:13:16,920
that are confronted with this overnight

1872
01:13:20,450 --> 01:13:18,600
because it's being announced from

1873
01:13:23,810 --> 01:13:20,460
official circles and discussed in media

1874
01:13:25,250 --> 01:13:23,820
and whatnot don't have the luxury of

1875
01:13:28,490 --> 01:13:25,260
years

1876
01:13:31,550 --> 01:13:28,500
to entertain this as a fun notion on the

1877
01:13:33,050 --> 01:13:31,560
side they are suddenly finding that

1878
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:33,060
their

1879
01:13:40,430 --> 01:13:37,440
fundamental relationship with reality is

1880
01:13:41,930 --> 01:13:40,440
being forced to change overnight

1881
01:13:43,970 --> 01:13:41,940
in a way it's a kind of abduction

1882
01:13:46,189 --> 01:13:43,980
experience because it's the Abduction of

1883
01:13:48,590 --> 01:13:46,199
your former model of reality right in

1884
01:13:50,270 --> 01:13:48,600
your relationship to it

1885
01:13:52,010 --> 01:13:50,280
and this is going to be happening on

1886
01:13:53,810 --> 01:13:52,020
mass in a way this never happened in the

1887
01:13:55,370 --> 01:13:53,820
history of our civilization so certainly

1888
01:13:56,750 --> 01:13:55,380
it's very difficult to predict what's

1889
01:13:59,450 --> 01:13:56,760
going to happen

1890
01:14:02,149 --> 01:13:59,460
and I think anyone who has a very

1891
01:14:04,729 --> 01:14:02,159
sort of trite simple answer to that

1892
01:14:06,890 --> 01:14:04,739
question is not really weighing the

1893
01:14:10,189 --> 01:14:06,900
complexity of the factors involved the

1894
01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:12,410
it really is it really is astonishing

1895
01:14:17,209 --> 01:14:15,600
and one wonders what's going to happen I

1896
01:14:19,070 --> 01:14:17,219
mean if I were to turn this back and say

1897
01:14:20,990 --> 01:14:19,080
to you

1898
01:14:24,530 --> 01:14:21,000
do you think this is something that

1899
01:14:26,689 --> 01:14:24,540
people can can rock and and reckon with

1900
01:14:28,790 --> 01:14:26,699
and get to Notions like interdimensional

1901
01:14:30,890 --> 01:14:28,800
ultra-terrestrial extra-term pastoral

1902
01:14:32,570 --> 01:14:30,900
within a few months or is it going to

1903
01:14:35,330 --> 01:14:32,580
take three years like it has for some

1904
01:14:38,090 --> 01:14:35,340
people in in UFO Twitter

1905
01:14:39,770 --> 01:14:38,100
and perhaps what I would suggest and

1906
01:14:42,290 --> 01:14:39,780
then I'll hand it over to you to sort of

1907
01:14:44,950 --> 01:14:42,300
think about that and reflect on that

1908
01:14:47,149 --> 01:14:44,960
but I think almost inevitably it will be

1909
01:14:49,070 --> 01:14:47,159
destabilizing at first you kind of have

1910
01:14:51,709 --> 01:14:49,080
to blow up the the initial model the

1911
01:14:55,130 --> 01:14:51,719
existing model and from that wreckage

1912
01:14:57,229 --> 01:14:55,140
that debris field you say I wonder what

1913
01:15:00,010 --> 01:14:57,239
would happen if this was in play or if

1914
01:15:03,470 --> 01:15:00,020
this was possible because nothing

1915
01:15:06,350 --> 01:15:03,480
excites curiosity and provokes new

1916
01:15:08,450 --> 01:15:06,360
models than necessity

1917
01:15:10,310 --> 01:15:08,460
right and we will be in that position we

1918
01:15:13,610 --> 01:15:10,320
will have no choice but to really

1919
01:15:17,149 --> 01:15:13,620
reconsider the nature of reality to

1920
01:15:18,709 --> 01:15:17,159
dream up new Notions of models that

1921
01:15:20,450 --> 01:15:18,719
don't have anything to do with what's

1922
01:15:21,590 --> 01:15:20,460
currently on the table as I've said

1923
01:15:23,870 --> 01:15:21,600
before and I become more and more

1924
01:15:25,370 --> 01:15:23,880
convinced of this that any of the the

1925
01:15:27,709 --> 01:15:25,380
leading models right now leading

1926
01:15:30,410 --> 01:15:27,719
hypotheses fail miserably mainly because

1927
01:15:32,570 --> 01:15:30,420
we just fail so miserably

1928
01:15:34,729 --> 01:15:32,580
at a really understanding

1929
01:15:36,290 --> 01:15:34,739
base reality and that's not that's not

1930
01:15:37,970 --> 01:15:36,300
an indictment of us that's just where we

1931
01:15:40,850 --> 01:15:37,980
are in our developmental Consciousness

1932
01:15:42,590 --> 01:15:40,860
as a civilization so I think this is

1933
01:15:44,450 --> 01:15:42,600
going to entail a lot of humility it's

1934
01:15:46,490 --> 01:15:44,460
going to demand a lot of humility

1935
01:15:49,490 --> 01:15:46,500
and one hopes they'll be more and more

1936
01:15:52,550 --> 01:15:49,500
interaction with these others that would

1937
01:15:55,010 --> 01:15:52,560
therefore see new understandings new

1938
01:15:57,830 --> 01:15:55,020
insights new Inspirations we've talked

1939
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:57,840
many times about even famous historic

1940
01:16:02,570 --> 01:16:00,239
cases of scientists that came up with

1941
01:16:05,330 --> 01:16:02,580
Innovative understandings and

1942
01:16:07,189 --> 01:16:05,340
technological innovations were inspired

1943
01:16:08,750 --> 01:16:07,199
by some sort of other intelligence and

1944
01:16:11,209 --> 01:16:08,760
when you listen to them it sounds a lot

1945
01:16:13,310 --> 01:16:11,219
like either their higher self or some

1946
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:13,320
interdimensional entity or some alien

1947
01:16:17,290 --> 01:16:15,600
intelligence is basically seeding their

1948
01:16:19,669 --> 01:16:17,300
understanding to help us move forward

1949
01:16:22,850 --> 01:16:19,679
what happens

1950
01:16:24,830 --> 01:16:22,860
when suddenly billions of people are

1951
01:16:26,209 --> 01:16:24,840
aware there is a there there and start

1952
01:16:28,370 --> 01:16:26,219
reaching out even with their own

1953
01:16:31,070 --> 01:16:28,380
Consciousness to to make contact with

1954
01:16:33,830 --> 01:16:31,080
these others what happens with ce5 and

1955
01:16:36,169 --> 01:16:33,840
Heist protocols when suddenly billions

1956
01:16:37,790 --> 01:16:36,179
of people and at the minimum hundreds of

1957
01:16:40,790 --> 01:16:37,800
millions of people start hearing about

1958
01:16:43,970 --> 01:16:40,800
these things and start trying it how

1959
01:16:46,669 --> 01:16:43,980
does that Dynamic change our reality

1960
01:16:48,709 --> 01:16:46,679
itself perhaps on mass does it

1961
01:16:50,870 --> 01:16:48,719
fundamentally move us into a different

1962
01:16:52,669 --> 01:16:50,880
kind of dimensional relationship with

1963
01:16:54,709 --> 01:16:52,679
reality and with the cosmic Community

1964
01:16:55,910 --> 01:16:54,719
these are all questions I think that

1965
01:16:58,130 --> 01:16:55,920
really come to me when I think about

1966
01:17:04,010 --> 01:16:58,140
what lies ahead what about for you

1967
01:17:08,330 --> 01:17:06,169
the paddles to the chest the shock to

1968
01:17:12,850 --> 01:17:08,340
the system I really think that this will

1969
01:17:16,370 --> 01:17:12,860
in fact be just like that that it will

1970
01:17:20,450 --> 01:17:16,380
send a jolt of electricity through the

1971
01:17:23,390 --> 01:17:20,460
human mind and and

1972
01:17:25,490 --> 01:17:23,400
light on fire are imaginations in a way

1973
01:17:28,430 --> 01:17:25,500
that maybe we have not had in a very

1974
01:17:32,689 --> 01:17:28,440
very long time that the spark of

1975
01:17:35,590 --> 01:17:32,699
possibility will be lit and

1976
01:17:37,970 --> 01:17:35,600
I think it will be contagious now it it

1977
01:17:40,970 --> 01:17:37,980
can it be contained is the question

1978
01:17:44,630 --> 01:17:40,980
right because that you and I both know

1979
01:17:46,610 --> 01:17:44,640
that when you when you accept that

1980
01:17:49,910 --> 01:17:46,620
something is possible and when you're

1981
01:17:53,930 --> 01:17:49,920
given a permission to believe

1982
01:17:57,470 --> 01:17:53,940
that something is possible then a lot of

1983
01:17:59,149 --> 01:17:57,480
things then become more possible for you

1984
01:18:02,209 --> 01:17:59,159
you know the world that you live in

1985
01:18:05,870 --> 01:18:02,219
changes and many things are on the table

1986
01:18:09,590 --> 01:18:05,880
that once were not and I'm here reminded

1987
01:18:12,070 --> 01:18:09,600
of uh stories that I'm sure all of us

1988
01:18:15,590 --> 01:18:12,080
have from our own lives and our families

1989
01:18:18,350 --> 01:18:15,600
uh in our in our closest circles stories

1990
01:18:22,310 --> 01:18:18,360
that we've wrote off in the past as

1991
01:18:26,770 --> 01:18:22,320
being Pure Fantasy uh tricks of the

1992
01:18:31,070 --> 01:18:26,780
imagination wishful thinking etc etc

1993
01:18:33,890 --> 01:18:31,080
will be re-examined in the light of this

1994
01:18:37,310 --> 01:18:33,900
knowledge and we will at that point say

1995
01:18:40,850 --> 01:18:37,320
well wow maybe there was something to

1996
01:18:42,950 --> 01:18:40,860
that Beyond uh our human understanding

1997
01:18:46,070 --> 01:18:42,960
that that it wasn't just a figment of

1998
01:18:49,130 --> 01:18:46,080
imagination that it was uh you know to

1999
01:18:52,610 --> 01:18:49,140
some degree a true connection with this

2000
01:18:54,649 --> 01:18:52,620
broader reality that we have ignored uh

2001
01:18:59,330 --> 01:18:54,659
think of those that have had near-death

2002
01:19:01,189 --> 01:18:59,340
experience uh and uh and and how common

2003
01:19:04,130 --> 01:19:01,199
those experiences are and how many

2004
01:19:07,130 --> 01:19:04,140
similarities there are across the nde or

2005
01:19:09,950 --> 01:19:07,140
past life experiences those things come

2006
01:19:13,130 --> 01:19:09,960
right to the Forefront uh when when used

2007
01:19:15,950 --> 01:19:13,140
when you make it known and acceptable to

2008
01:19:19,430 --> 01:19:15,960
believe that we are no longer

2009
01:19:21,890 --> 01:19:19,440
at the top of the food chain uh and uh

2010
01:19:24,410 --> 01:19:21,900
and there's much more to reality and

2011
01:19:26,750 --> 01:19:24,420
life than we once thought

2012
01:19:29,870 --> 01:19:26,760
um so it you know I think the the

2013
01:19:32,390 --> 01:19:29,880
challenge could perhaps be really as it

2014
01:19:34,610 --> 01:19:32,400
maybe has often been separating the

2015
01:19:37,669 --> 01:19:34,620
signal from the noise there

2016
01:19:41,330 --> 01:19:37,679
um and and really does make me think

2017
01:19:45,709 --> 01:19:41,340
that the the need for some some serious

2018
01:19:48,350 --> 01:19:45,719
thoughtful uh Collective worldwide

2019
01:19:50,930 --> 01:19:48,360
Endeavor to understand this is going to

2020
01:19:52,970 --> 01:19:50,940
be a Paramount importance because just

2021
01:19:54,770 --> 01:19:52,980
having everyone kind of armchair

2022
01:19:56,570 --> 01:19:54,780
quarterback whatever that this might

2023
01:19:59,209 --> 01:19:56,580
mean I don't think that's going to

2024
01:20:01,310 --> 01:19:59,219
really get us anywhere uh anywhere

2025
01:20:03,050 --> 01:20:01,320
productive for that matter but you could

2026
01:20:05,030 --> 01:20:03,060
easily see where people could say well

2027
01:20:06,470 --> 01:20:05,040
there's there's non-human intelligence

2028
01:20:08,510 --> 01:20:06,480
uh and they're talking to me right now

2029
01:20:11,390 --> 01:20:08,520
and they're telling me that I can do XYZ

2030
01:20:14,270 --> 01:20:11,400
or whatever I want uh you know human

2031
01:20:16,610 --> 01:20:14,280
beings can find justification for all

2032
01:20:20,209 --> 01:20:16,620
kinds of things but I'm I'm also

2033
01:20:22,490 --> 01:20:20,219
reminded of those even now who have had

2034
01:20:24,649 --> 01:20:22,500
even maybe even a personal experience

2035
01:20:27,290 --> 01:20:24,659
with this intelligence at least one

2036
01:20:29,810 --> 01:20:27,300
faction of it and are in absolute denial

2037
01:20:31,610 --> 01:20:29,820
that it's real uh you and I have talked

2038
01:20:33,470 --> 01:20:31,620
about this many times in fact I think it

2039
01:20:36,649 --> 01:20:33,480
was one of the earlier topics of our

2040
01:20:38,930 --> 01:20:36,659
conversation that in the face of the

2041
01:20:41,570 --> 01:20:38,940
revelations that we already have been

2042
01:20:43,790 --> 01:20:41,580
privy to that there are people who just

2043
01:20:46,910 --> 01:20:43,800
go about their day-to-day and and

2044
01:20:50,330 --> 01:20:46,920
complete ignorance of of the reality

2045
01:20:53,510 --> 01:20:50,340
itself and so I I kind of Wonder to what

2046
01:20:56,390 --> 01:20:53,520
extent those people will still be there

2047
01:20:59,149 --> 01:20:56,400
um in a sense and they might acknowledge

2048
01:21:00,590 --> 01:20:59,159
that oh yeah it's real but you know I

2049
01:21:02,390 --> 01:21:00,600
don't really think about it because I

2050
01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:02,400
gotta you know I gotta pay the mortgage

2051
01:21:05,090 --> 01:21:03,840
and I don't really need I don't have

2052
01:21:07,910 --> 01:21:05,100
time for that

2053
01:21:10,370 --> 01:21:07,920
um so how many of those folks will will

2054
01:21:13,010 --> 01:21:10,380
there be uh you know in some ways kind

2055
01:21:14,750 --> 01:21:13,020
of keeping things going and staying on

2056
01:21:17,870 --> 01:21:14,760
the hamster wheel that you're already on

2057
01:21:19,790 --> 01:21:17,880
the devil you know oh right is uh is

2058
01:21:22,910 --> 01:21:19,800
better than the devil you don't

2059
01:21:25,250 --> 01:21:22,920
indeed you know I think about this

2060
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:25,260
trauma piece we talked about before and

2061
01:21:30,050 --> 01:21:28,800
how trauma well is nothing anyone wants

2062
01:21:32,290 --> 01:21:30,060
to experience

2063
01:21:35,350 --> 01:21:32,300
when they go through it it often

2064
01:21:39,229 --> 01:21:35,360
deconstructs to a degree deep enough

2065
01:21:40,850 --> 01:21:39,239
that real transformation is possible

2066
01:21:43,910 --> 01:21:40,860
really want to hit this home for people

2067
01:21:46,250 --> 01:21:43,920
because again I think sometimes we don't

2068
01:21:47,689 --> 01:21:46,260
realize we're like shuffling deck chairs

2069
01:21:49,610 --> 01:21:47,699
on the Titanic

2070
01:21:51,110 --> 01:21:49,620
we talk about well maybe if we just do a

2071
01:21:53,390 --> 01:21:51,120
bit of this and a bit of this and if we

2072
01:21:55,430 --> 01:21:53,400
get you know this wind technology going

2073
01:21:56,870 --> 01:21:55,440
and solar technology you know at this

2074
01:21:59,090 --> 01:21:56,880
small Pace you know then eventually

2075
01:22:00,950 --> 01:21:59,100
we'll be fine we'll turn it around and

2076
01:22:03,110 --> 01:22:00,960
it's almost like we're trying to

2077
01:22:05,090 --> 01:22:03,120
convince ourselves that we're doing

2078
01:22:07,310 --> 01:22:05,100
something when we if we really look at

2079
01:22:09,950 --> 01:22:07,320
it we're not really taking it seriously

2080
01:22:11,330 --> 01:22:09,960
or working with any kind of speed or

2081
01:22:13,430 --> 01:22:11,340
urgency that we could if we really

2082
01:22:16,250 --> 01:22:13,440
wanted to and this certainly is not a

2083
01:22:18,169 --> 01:22:16,260
civilization-wide Embrace of an approach

2084
01:22:20,930 --> 01:22:18,179
to this even though we know all of the

2085
01:22:22,970 --> 01:22:20,940
variables in play ours Planet wide kind

2086
01:22:25,610 --> 01:22:22,980
of issues you can't have one nation

2087
01:22:27,709 --> 01:22:25,620
become a green technology kind of nation

2088
01:22:30,770 --> 01:22:27,719
While others go completely the opposite

2089
01:22:32,750 --> 01:22:30,780
way we don't have the option for China

2090
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:32,760
or India to go through an industrial

2091
01:22:36,830 --> 01:22:34,800
revolution like we did there'll be too

2092
01:22:38,810 --> 01:22:36,840
much damage to the planet at the same

2093
01:22:41,090 --> 01:22:38,820
time we have to as First World countries

2094
01:22:42,649 --> 01:22:41,100
who did go through all that say who are

2095
01:22:44,630 --> 01:22:42,659
we to say to them they can't and and

2096
01:22:46,669 --> 01:22:44,640
what kind of sacrifices do we need to

2097
01:22:48,350 --> 01:22:46,679
make to also play our play our role here

2098
01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:48,360
now some people with think I'm getting

2099
01:22:51,770 --> 01:22:50,159
preachy here but again I just really

2100
01:22:54,050 --> 01:22:51,780
want to hit home I think the situation

2101
01:22:56,149 --> 01:22:54,060
is much more dire than we realize

2102
01:22:59,330 --> 01:22:56,159
and so I come back to this trauma piece

2103
01:23:01,370 --> 01:22:59,340
this will undoubtedly be traumatic but

2104
01:23:03,649 --> 01:23:01,380
even when I speak with close friends of

2105
01:23:04,970 --> 01:23:03,659
mine who are trauma counselors

2106
01:23:07,370 --> 01:23:04,980
people have been through some of the

2107
01:23:10,850 --> 01:23:07,380
most horrific things you can imagine and

2108
01:23:14,090 --> 01:23:10,860
it blows up their life no fun but on the

2109
01:23:16,430 --> 01:23:14,100
other side of that you then have the

2110
01:23:19,610 --> 01:23:16,440
real capacity for transformational

2111
01:23:21,709 --> 01:23:19,620
change not just situational posturing

2112
01:23:23,450 --> 01:23:21,719
and that kind of thing but really

2113
01:23:25,490 --> 01:23:23,460
fundamentally re-examining your

2114
01:23:27,410 --> 01:23:25,500
relationship with life with reality why

2115
01:23:29,630 --> 01:23:27,420
you're here what you're doing

2116
01:23:31,729 --> 01:23:29,640
and I just want to remind people that a

2117
01:23:34,130 --> 01:23:31,739
consistent message that experiencers

2118
01:23:35,390 --> 01:23:34,140
Come Away with from these encounters is

2119
01:23:36,709 --> 01:23:35,400
not just you need to do things

2120
01:23:38,270 --> 01:23:36,719
differently with the Earth you need to

2121
01:23:40,010 --> 01:23:38,280
treat the Earth with respect you need to

2122
01:23:41,209 --> 01:23:40,020
think about not just creating it like a

2123
01:23:43,970 --> 01:23:41,219
commodity

2124
01:23:45,890 --> 01:23:43,980
but also who are you what is your

2125
01:23:48,410 --> 01:23:45,900
relationship with the cosmos what is

2126
01:23:50,270 --> 01:23:48,420
your multi-dimensional cross lifetime

2127
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:50,280
kind of experience so many people Come

2128
01:23:54,590 --> 01:23:52,560
Away with experiences of remembering

2129
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:54,600
past lives remembering sometimes being

2130
01:23:59,390 --> 01:23:57,120
in different forms in different

2131
01:24:01,669 --> 01:23:59,400
lifetimes even as a gray alien some

2132
01:24:03,410 --> 01:24:01,679
people really do have a fundamental

2133
01:24:05,630 --> 01:24:03,420
sense of having an identity as partly

2134
01:24:07,490 --> 01:24:05,640
human partly something else these are

2135
01:24:09,830 --> 01:24:07,500
Notions that will also probably be

2136
01:24:11,930 --> 01:24:09,840
introduced to the conversation as this

2137
01:24:14,870 --> 01:24:11,940
spirals out and yet these are questions

2138
01:24:17,450 --> 01:24:14,880
we need to engage with we need to

2139
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:17,460
fundamentally think about what this

2140
01:24:20,750 --> 01:24:18,960
means in all of the big questions

2141
01:24:24,110 --> 01:24:20,760
because it's not just one big question

2142
01:24:26,209 --> 01:24:24,120
it's not just are we alone no but it's

2143
01:24:28,790 --> 01:24:26,219
also who then are we

2144
01:24:30,229 --> 01:24:28,800
what is life what is this you know I

2145
01:24:32,390 --> 01:24:30,239
think again about my Buddhist training

2146
01:24:34,130 --> 01:24:32,400
and they will often say that Romana

2147
01:24:35,990 --> 01:24:34,140
maharshi will get people to ask this

2148
01:24:38,330 --> 01:24:36,000
question over and over again and you

2149
01:24:40,010 --> 01:24:38,340
keep asking it you go deeper and deeper

2150
01:24:43,130 --> 01:24:40,020
and deeper until eventually you realize

2151
01:24:45,950 --> 01:24:43,140
there's no individual eye that is to

2152
01:24:48,290 --> 01:24:45,960
some degree an illusion what I am is the

2153
01:24:50,330 --> 01:24:48,300
cosmos what I am is everything and how

2154
01:24:52,070 --> 01:24:50,340
differently would we respond if we

2155
01:24:54,110 --> 01:24:52,080
recognize that we were facets of that

2156
01:24:55,790 --> 01:24:54,120
one Diamond how would we look at each

2157
01:24:58,010 --> 01:24:55,800
other differently look at these others

2158
01:24:59,630 --> 01:24:58,020
differently and look at our relationship

2159
01:25:00,470 --> 01:24:59,640
with the planet differently all these

2160
01:25:03,470 --> 01:25:00,480
things

2161
01:25:06,410 --> 01:25:03,480
really key questions who am I what is

2162
01:25:08,450 --> 01:25:06,420
this what is this everything around me

2163
01:25:11,390 --> 01:25:08,460
what I'm doing day to day what is this

2164
01:25:13,790 --> 01:25:11,400
we get so caught up in our capitalist

2165
01:25:15,169 --> 01:25:13,800
system like you said that we we file it

2166
01:25:18,050 --> 01:25:15,179
and we file out of work we sit in

2167
01:25:20,149 --> 01:25:18,060
traffic blah blah and we're so busy with

2168
01:25:22,130 --> 01:25:20,159
that that our lives are gone before we

2169
01:25:23,750 --> 01:25:22,140
know it decades have gone by

2170
01:25:25,790 --> 01:25:23,760
and we haven't really entertained those

2171
01:25:28,310 --> 01:25:25,800
deep questions what I'm excited about

2172
01:25:30,470 --> 01:25:28,320
with this Revelation that's coming is

2173
01:25:33,530 --> 01:25:30,480
not just the question about are physical

2174
01:25:35,030 --> 01:25:33,540
aliens from Alpha Centauri here but like

2175
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:35,040
you say what is the nature of reality

2176
01:25:38,209 --> 01:25:36,719
maybe that experience I had when I was

2177
01:25:39,950 --> 01:25:38,219
10 years old and I saw that being maybe

2178
01:25:42,229 --> 01:25:39,960
that really happened maybe that wasn't

2179
01:25:44,450 --> 01:25:42,239
just a dream maybe there's a

2180
01:25:47,110 --> 01:25:44,460
multi-dimensional aspect to life all

2181
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:47,120
around us and what really makes me

2182
01:25:51,169 --> 01:25:49,920
excited is the possibility that just

2183
01:25:54,110 --> 01:25:51,179
that question

2184
01:25:55,790 --> 01:25:54,120
being asked by many many people in the

2185
01:25:58,790 --> 01:25:55,800
millions and the billions how might that

2186
01:26:01,070 --> 01:25:58,800
fundamentally change our relationship

2187
01:26:03,169 --> 01:26:01,080
with reality how might that offer us new

2188
01:26:04,669 --> 01:26:03,179
opportunities to see the world there's

2189
01:26:07,490 --> 01:26:04,679
been some really interesting research

2190
01:26:09,950 --> 01:26:07,500
done on psilocybin and how people that

2191
01:26:13,550 --> 01:26:09,960
have experienced psilocybin and seen

2192
01:26:15,350 --> 01:26:13,560
these deeper realities seen and felt is

2193
01:26:17,090 --> 01:26:15,360
very important in an embodied way they

2194
01:26:19,850 --> 01:26:17,100
felt connected to everything and

2195
01:26:21,950 --> 01:26:19,860
everyone you act completely differently

2196
01:26:25,129 --> 01:26:21,960
when that is your false understanding of

2197
01:26:26,510 --> 01:26:25,139
identity this has the possibility to do

2198
01:26:29,450 --> 01:26:26,520
something like that in the best case

2199
01:26:31,910 --> 01:26:29,460
scenario it was like a a mass psilocybin

2200
01:26:33,470 --> 01:26:31,920
effect across the planet so these are

2201
01:26:35,990 --> 01:26:33,480
the things that are daunting challenges

2202
01:26:37,970 --> 01:26:36,000
we face but also I think this Revelation

2203
01:26:39,590 --> 01:26:37,980
while initially will be traumatizing

2204
01:26:42,410 --> 01:26:39,600
there will be some destabilization

2205
01:26:45,590 --> 01:26:42,420
undoubtedly when we have a market-based

2206
01:26:48,350 --> 01:26:45,600
system that tries to respond to reduce

2207
01:26:51,770 --> 01:26:48,360
the unknown this is the unknown with a

2208
01:26:54,410 --> 01:26:51,780
capital u and so how is that going to be

2209
01:26:57,050 --> 01:26:54,420
treated and handled by a market-based

2210
01:27:00,770 --> 01:26:57,060
system of capitalism and what does that

2211
01:27:02,149 --> 01:27:00,780
say about the system we've trusted to

2212
01:27:03,770 --> 01:27:02,159
care for our children and our

2213
01:27:05,689 --> 01:27:03,780
grandchildren moving forward is a way we

2214
01:27:07,669 --> 01:27:05,699
can do it better these are all questions

2215
01:27:09,169 --> 01:27:07,679
I think that arise as secondary

2216
01:27:11,570 --> 01:27:09,179
questions because of these initial

2217
01:27:14,810 --> 01:27:11,580
Revelations

2218
01:27:18,470 --> 01:27:14,820
there is indeed another way another way

2219
01:27:22,070 --> 01:27:18,480
to be we have been trapped by

2220
01:27:25,970 --> 01:27:22,080
our ways of thinking in a way the trauma

2221
01:27:27,290 --> 01:27:25,980
that we experience in reality now the

2222
01:27:30,729 --> 01:27:27,300
day-to-day

2223
01:27:34,510 --> 01:27:30,739
it defines us and it confines us

2224
01:27:38,090 --> 01:27:34,520
it constrains what we think is possible

2225
01:27:41,090 --> 01:27:38,100
and what this represents as we have said

2226
01:27:45,770 --> 01:27:41,100
many times is

2227
01:27:48,290 --> 01:27:45,780
a a ray of light a a a a a a Hint it is

2228
01:27:51,649 --> 01:27:48,300
something greater and deeper than what

2229
01:27:54,590 --> 01:27:51,659
we think can be true and it it gives us

2230
01:27:58,129 --> 01:27:54,600
that opportunity it invites us into that

2231
01:28:01,850 --> 01:27:58,139
opportunity uh it cannot be ignored we

2232
01:28:06,110 --> 01:28:01,860
we can no longer ignore it and a new day

2233
01:28:07,910 --> 01:28:06,120
will come and a new way uh will be shown

2234
01:28:10,390 --> 01:28:07,920
and

2235
01:28:14,810 --> 01:28:10,400
we will step into that future

2236
01:28:17,330 --> 01:28:14,820
uh perhaps we will stumble uh but I am

2237
01:28:21,470 --> 01:28:17,340
hopeful we will take those steps and

2238
01:28:24,350 --> 01:28:21,480
eventually learn how to run and what a

2239
01:28:25,910 --> 01:28:24,360
wonderful day that will be

2240
01:28:28,129 --> 01:28:25,920
agreed and I think the only thing I

2241
01:28:31,430 --> 01:28:28,139
would add as we close here is that

2242
01:28:33,590 --> 01:28:31,440
my hope is my goal is to be part of a

2243
01:28:35,810 --> 01:28:33,600
movement that not only thinks about how

2244
01:28:38,330 --> 01:28:35,820
we have to be different systemically in

2245
01:28:40,790 --> 01:28:38,340
terms of our systems whatnot but that

2246
01:28:42,950 --> 01:28:40,800
also the kind of ego death that people

2247
01:28:45,229 --> 01:28:42,960
experience sometimes when they encounter

2248
01:28:46,910 --> 01:28:45,239
these others will be something that all

2249
01:28:48,410 --> 01:28:46,920
of us begin to experience but not

2250
01:28:50,149 --> 01:28:48,420
because it's traumatic but because of

2251
01:28:51,830 --> 01:28:50,159
what lies on the other side of that a

2252
01:28:53,450 --> 01:28:51,840
Transcendent understanding of being

2253
01:28:55,430 --> 01:28:53,460
connected to everything

2254
01:28:57,590 --> 01:28:55,440
and that I think just as important as

2255
01:28:59,510 --> 01:28:57,600
the systemic changes we need to make

2256
01:29:01,910 --> 01:28:59,520
we also need to treat each other

2257
01:29:04,850 --> 01:29:01,920
differently one-on-one small groups

2258
01:29:06,410 --> 01:29:04,860
larger groups organization-wide the

2259
01:29:09,410 --> 01:29:06,420
interpersonal changes we need to make

2260
01:29:11,390 --> 01:29:09,420
are also I think Paramount I have a goal

2261
01:29:12,770 --> 01:29:11,400
to actually help train people with that

2262
01:29:13,850 --> 01:29:12,780
because of some of the experiences I've

2263
01:29:16,550 --> 01:29:13,860
had some of the things I've been

2264
01:29:18,830 --> 01:29:16,560
practicing and developing for for a long

2265
01:29:21,470 --> 01:29:18,840
time now because I think we have to

2266
01:29:23,750 --> 01:29:21,480
fundamentally unlearn some of the ways

2267
01:29:26,390 --> 01:29:23,760
we've learned to be with each other with

2268
01:29:27,890 --> 01:29:26,400
so much deception and lies like you say

2269
01:29:30,470 --> 01:29:27,900
even if they're white lies that all of

2270
01:29:31,910 --> 01:29:30,480
that actually robs us of this deeper

2271
01:29:34,669 --> 01:29:31,920
Treasure of being connected to each

2272
01:29:37,610 --> 01:29:34,679
other and my firm belief is my

2273
01:29:39,590 --> 01:29:37,620
conviction is if we can be radically

2274
01:29:41,990 --> 01:29:39,600
transparent with each other we become

2275
01:29:43,610 --> 01:29:42,000
more psychic we become inherently more

2276
01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:43,620
connected to each other and to

2277
01:29:47,330 --> 01:29:45,840
everything else and so my hope is that

2278
01:29:49,970 --> 01:29:47,340
that is a big part of what happens here

2279
01:29:56,810 --> 01:29:53,510
Amen to that I'm here for it and I'm

2280
01:29:59,169 --> 01:29:56,820
sure many of our listeners are as well

2281
01:30:05,209 --> 01:29:59,179
uh I am

2282
01:30:06,950 --> 01:30:05,219
encouraged uh and uh and optimistic I

2283
01:30:08,990 --> 01:30:06,960
think it's going to be a very positive

2284
01:30:12,649 --> 01:30:09,000
thing there will be many difficult

2285
01:30:13,570 --> 01:30:12,659
conversations ahead but one's well worth

2286
01:30:17,090 --> 01:30:13,580
having

2287
01:30:20,990 --> 01:30:17,100
and I encourage all of those who listen

2288
01:30:23,330 --> 01:30:21,000
to this podcast uh to be you know ready

2289
01:30:26,810 --> 01:30:23,340
and open to having those conversations

2290
01:30:29,510 --> 01:30:26,820
uh not only with uh those that they love

2291
01:30:31,010 --> 01:30:29,520
but uh The Strangers that they meet and

2292
01:30:33,229 --> 01:30:31,020
that we can be you know kind of

2293
01:30:36,890 --> 01:30:33,239
ambassadors for

2294
01:30:39,709 --> 01:30:36,900
um a new way of understanding

2295
01:30:42,169 --> 01:30:39,719
and on that note May the quality of our

2296
01:30:44,689 --> 01:30:42,179
questions shaped by desire for

2297
01:30:45,830 --> 01:30:44,699
understanding enhance our journey of

2298
01:30:48,350 --> 01:30:45,840
discovery

2299
01:30:51,470 --> 01:30:48,360
the mayor travels broaden the sphere of

2300
01:30:54,590 --> 01:30:51,480
our Consciousness reminding us that new

2301
01:30:57,709 --> 01:30:54,600
discoveries beget New Horizons

2302
01:30:59,570 --> 01:30:57,719
and as always Adventure awaits

2303
01:31:03,450 --> 01:30:59,580
we'll see you next time on liminal

2304
01:31:07,250 --> 01:31:05,680
[Music]

2305
01:31:13,550 --> 01:31:07,260
[Laughter]